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DNC decides to stick with big banks and corporate sponsers, and disses Progressives

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The election of Tom Perez as leader of the DNC is a clear statement from the old democratic establishment: We'll stay with our corporate sponsers and to hell with Bernie's Progressives.

These are the same establishment folks who fully supported Hillary's flawed run.

There is a movement afoot to establish a new party to accept all the millions of former democrats who rejected Hillary.

As soon as that party is formed, I'm joining. Fuck the DNC and corrupt campaign financing!

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Splitting up is a good way to ensure neither faction wins anything, seems to me. And didn't Perez immediately name his opponent as vice-chair or some such, and call for party unity?

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RealLindaL wrote:Splitting up is a good way to ensure neither faction wins anything, seems to me.  And didn't Perez immediately name his opponent as vice-chair or some such, and call for party unity?

Of course he did.  Fact -- his gang of bloodsuckers can't win without the progressives, the same way the republicans can't win without the Tea Party.  

Here's the problem as I see it, Linda: The same leaders who have run the democratic show for the last three decades are still in power:  Pelosi, Schumer, Brazil and their fat, corporate paid cronies.  And Perez is their boy.  

Unfortunately, the way our system works, it takes big money to win elections.  And the old guard isn't about to ditch their meal ticket for a risky run with Bernie's pack of young, volatile wolves.  

It's the classic political conflict of our age -- politicians are forced to pretend to represent the impoverished masses, while remaining faithful to the ultra rich power brokers.  So they say one thing to this audience and something else to the other.  Hillary's ride to political oblivion is the perfect example of an experienced politician determined to look liberal with the majority of her supporters, but careful to never bite the hands that fed her.  

The biggest problem, everywhere in our world, is that when money rules, only money wins.  So the rich get richer and we don't.

But, at some undefinable point, those who are suffering always choose to risk everything to overthrow the existing, insufferable conditions.

The Tea Party brought us Trump.

Bernie and Elizabeth Warren's followers have had enough of conventional, old guard democratic leadership.  

Perez and Ellison go together like a mule and a washing machine.

Donna Brazil colluded with Hillary's staff to deny Bernie Sanders the candidacy, and fed Hillary with a menu of the scheduled questions for one or more of her debates with Trump.  Last night, Perez made sure to bow to her during his acceptance speech.  Any question who's running the democrat show?


Bernie's gang of progressives are young, driven by idealism, and dedicated to improvement.  And they are one and all users of all the high tech devices for communication.  They smell poop before people of my generation (and maybe yours) do.  

The democrats have chosen to continue to pretend to care about the middle and lower classes, while obeying every whisper from their moneyed sponsors.

It's old vs. new.  Game on!

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A distinction without a difference. The very thing which got President Trump elected. This foolishness has to stop if American politics can return to sanity. The enemy of good is perfect. Some people need to get out of their parents basement to understand that the utopia they seek with student loans being forgiven, and free college is a pipe dream, and the blue collar democrats who work their asz off and support unions do not need ivory tower folks telling them about this distinction without a difference. Unite and kick some fascist asz. There is no doubt in my mind that the dark side has compromised some of bernie supporters into sabotaging sanity.

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2seaoat wrote:A distinction without a difference.  The very thing which got President Trump elected.  This foolishness has to stop if American politics can return to sanity.  The enemy of good is perfect.  Some people need to get out of their parents basement to understand that the utopia they seek with student loans being forgiven, and free college is a pipe dream, and the blue collar democrats who work their asz off and support unions do not need ivory tower folks telling them about this distinction without a difference.  Unite and kick some fascist asz.  There is no doubt in my mind that the dark side has compromised some of bernie supporters into sabotaging sanity.

"The very thing that got Trump elected ..."  Right.  We need some of that to counter balance his insanity.  Free college, healthcare, and healthy unions ... sounds good to me and all genuine progressives.
And it works everywhere in the industrialized world -- except here.  You want to go back to kissing the hand of the bloodsuckers, be my guest.  I'm for burying them!

It's clear you think Bernie's supporters and America's working class need to be directed by the filthy rich.  What the hell do you have against the working people and poorer classes of America?

You obviously want to go back to what doesn't work anymore. I don't.

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I have been following bernie sanders for over five years on Thom Hartman's Friday show which he called lunch with Bernie. I love Bernie sanders. I love his ability to point to the flaws in our current system. However, over the last five years, long before he ran for President, as much as I love his ability to identify the problems, I was not a big fan of his ability to propose solutions which were framed in the real world. His naive approach to how congress works was a deal killer for me. When Democrats are in an ivory tower and local, state and federal elections are putting 70% Republicans in office, his policies are unrealistic and harmful to what can be accomplished with realistic progressive goals. First, I have NEVER been a fan of forgiving college loans. I am a fan of amending the bankruptcy code and allowing 75% of all student loans to be discharged in a chapter 13 with the debtor paying back 25% of their debt over a five year, sixty month plan. When a student had repaid the 25% over that period they would be freed of the anchor which is killing our economy as young couples are not buying homes and furnishing them because of the student loan debt. Second, I would limit the amount of student loans per year available to students, and would not allow student loans to exceed 60k over a four year college career. I would also give direct student loans taking the middle man the banks out of the equation, and charge a .45 basis point over treasuries, or an amount which actuarial tables would cover the percentage of defaults. This would mean more students would be going to Junior Colleges the first two years, and that is where I would give tuition assistance from the federal government. All this unlimited loans has done has created greedy profit oriented private colleges which leave students with 200k debt and degrees which are not marketable as these same fools line up to support Bernie to forgive their stupidity.......sorry free college is a bad idea, however, federal tuition assistance and allowing for discharge in bankruptcy of most of student loans is a doable progressive goal.

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2seaoat wrote:I have been following bernie sanders for over five years on Thom Hartman's Friday show which he called lunch with Bernie.  I love Bernie sanders.  I love his ability to point to the flaws in our current system.  However, over the last five years, long before he ran for President, as much as I love his ability to identify the problems, I was not a big fan of his ability to propose solutions which were framed in the real world.  His naive approach to how congress works was a deal killer for me.   When Democrats are in an ivory tower and local, state and federal elections are putting 70% Republicans in office, his policies are unrealistic and harmful to what can be accomplished with realistic progressive goals.   First, I have NEVER been a fan of forgiving college loans.   I am a fan of amending the bankruptcy code and allowing 75% of all student loans to be discharged in a chapter 13 with the debtor paying back 25% of their debt over a five year, sixty month plan.   When a student had repaid the 25% over that period they would be freed of the anchor which is killing our economy as young couples are not buying homes and furnishing them because of the student loan debt.   Second, I would limit the amount of student loans per year available to students, and would not allow student loans to exceed 60k over a four year college career.  I would also give direct student loans taking the middle man the banks out of the equation, and charge a .45 basis point over treasuries, or an amount which actuarial tables would cover the percentage of defaults.  This would mean more students would be going to Junior Colleges the first two years, and that is where I would give tuition assistance from the federal government.  All this unlimited loans has done has created greedy profit oriented private colleges which leave students with 200k debt and degrees which are not marketable as these same fools line up to support Bernie to forgive their stupidity.......sorry  free college is a bad idea, however, federal tuition assistance and allowing for discharge in bankruptcy of most of student loans is a doable progressive goal.


You make a good argument here, but you haven't convinced me. The choices are to continue supporting the democratic establishment -- the same one that ran Hillary and lost because it ignored the economic plight of all but the 1%. If all of these people had chest pains the rest of the month it would be fine with me.

Bernie is honest and really represents the people vs. the oligarchs -- something the DNC under Perez is not likely to do. It's the democrat establishment which needs to be shit-canned.

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You can change income inequality with a return of tax rates to the 1980s and investing in American infrastructure which gives American blue collar workers high paying jobs. In many states with prevailing wage legislation, these jobs are incredible for middle class families. Who pays for this is everybody, but the majority of tax dollars will come from the 1%. I have good friends who could not understand my support of Hillary, and one said.....seaoat, you are going to cost me 16k a year........yep, the amount you should have been paying for the last thirty plus years, but for the continued tax cuts for the wealthy. It starts with simple returns to tax rates which worked for the American middle class. Sure they will pay a little more, but the jobs created will stimulate the economy and slowly we can have Americans getting a piece of the growth in GDP which over the last forty years has been stolen by the 1%. Bernie confuses this simple message. He wants to give things away and sounds like and Ivory tower intellectual. We need somebody who appeals to those Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, and Pa voters who are white blue collar middle class Americans who were turned off by the idea of one more handout program. Keep it simple. Democrats have to be the party of investment in America and Americans paid for by tax rates returning to the eighties......this is doable. It is the scariest thing a 1% faces.......a determined and focused electorate which invests in the middle class.

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Fascinating debate, guys - don't stop now.  Am hoping this discussion will continue after Sea recovers from this next surgery.  I do agree that the freebie give-away programs proposed by Bernie were a complete turn-off to way too many folks, especially that white working middle class group that put Trump in the White House.  We do need to find a way to make college more affordable, and starting with state schools is the way to go, but making it free just isn't going to fly anytime soon, I'm afraid, and continuing to talk about it will do nothing but alienate more voters -- that is, other than the youngsters who naturally want it but don't fully realize (or don't want to know) that someone has to pay.

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RealLindaL wrote:Fascinating debate, guys - don't stop now.  Am hoping this discussion will continue after Sea recovers from this next surgery.  I do agree that the freebie give-away programs proposed by Bernie were a complete turn-off to way too many folks, especially that white working middle class group that put Trump in the White House.  We do need to find a way to make college more affordable, and starting with state schools is the way to go, but making it free just isn't going to fly anytime soon, I'm afraid, and continuing to talk about it will do nothing but alienate more voters -- that is, other than the youngsters who naturally want it but don't fully realize (or don't want to know) that someone has to pay.


We sure as hell can't afford NOT to make a college education affordable for everyone. The Chinese are now producing more patents than we are. As for paying for it, Mr. Trump says we need to build thousands more nuclear weapons, and increase the size of our military forces and their equipment and arsenals. And we need to increase ICE and border patrol officers in the thousands. And we need to cut taxes on corporations and the ultra rich.

Fact: Every industrialized western European nation offers free college education and healthcare. But you say we can't .... "Somebody has to pay for things like that," right? How about we don't cut taxes on the ultra rich and the biggest corporations, and if they move out of our country, we tax hell out of their products? It's a question of values, no? Which would you rather have, the biggest, meanest, most murderous military the world has ever seen, or the burgeoning economy of a high-tech modernized country, with an adequate supply of trained workers?

I'm all ears.

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Wordslinger wrote:The election of Tom Perez as leader of the DNC is a clear statement from the old democratic establishment: We'll stay with our corporate sponsers and to hell with Bernie's Progressives.

These are the same establishment folks who fully supported Hillary's flawed run.  

There is a movement afoot to establish a new party to accept all the millions of former democrats who rejected Hillary.

As soon as that party is formed, I'm joining.  Fuck the DNC and corrupt campaign financing!

Jumpin' Jebus on a pogo stick ...

Suddenly, Perez is the tool of Wall Street and the darling of the corporatists??

The corporatist think tank Competitive Enterprise Institute sure as hell didn't think so when Clinton was considering him for VP ...


"His rewriting of U.S. labor law is probably the most fundamental attack on the free-enterprise system going on at present…If he has his way, we won't just revert to the 1930s. We'll do things that even Franklin Roosevelt couldn't do, like eliminate vast numbers of independent-contractor jobs and unionize those that remain."

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436112/tom-perez-leftist-radical-hillary-clinton-vp-shortlist

Sounds more like Trotsky.

It's waaaay past time to stop litigating the 2016 Democratic primary and focus on what's important, man.

The Republic is on the line, and you want to cry about who got the DNC chair??

C'mon, man!

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I think he was meant to be a token to the bernieites... something to secure their support.

The problem is that they're too stupid to get it.

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I think it is simple. President Trump said he was going to cut waste in Military spending and be fair with folks medical insurance. He gutted ACA taxes with huge rebates for 1% folks and now we are going to be spending more money on the Military when Russia's GDP just fell below Italy. We need to work for America and for Americans. This nonsense of traditional democrats being sell outs to Wall Street is nonsense. They are not perfect, but they have GOOD programs which can help Americans. The appeal to racism has let the 1% to the typical slight of hand fooling the fools, and in the process stealing a bit more of America. I do not want freebies. I would have liked to see medicare for every fifty year old in America and keep the ACA with its taxes because once the older Americans were peeled off, the rates for young families would drop by more than half. Our schools in America are world class. I am tired of this idea that we need to subsidize private for profit schools while bankrupting young kids, or what really turned off blue collar white voters was to propose a freebie for kids who were taking five or six years to get a BA while running up tabs which ultimately get paid by an auto worker in Ohio. Sorry, Bernie is not perfect, and his goals are ideals which should be incrementally worked on, but to fight about give aways is a killer and a free pass to the 1%.

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Sal wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:The election of Tom Perez as leader of the DNC is a clear statement from the old democratic establishment: We'll stay with our corporate sponsers and to hell with Bernie's Progressives.

These are the same establishment folks who fully supported Hillary's flawed run.  

There is a movement afoot to establish a new party to accept all the millions of former democrats who rejected Hillary.

As soon as that party is formed, I'm joining.  Fuck the DNC and corrupt campaign financing!

Jumpin' Jebus on a pogo stick ...

Suddenly, Perez is the tool of Wall Street and the darling of the corporatists??

The corporatist think tank Competitive Enterprise Institute sure as hell didn't think so when Clinton was considering him for VP ...


"His rewriting of U.S. labor law is probably the most fundamental attack on the free-enterprise system going on at present…If he has his way, we won't just revert to the 1930s. We'll do things that even Franklin Roosevelt couldn't do, like eliminate vast numbers of independent-contractor jobs and unionize those that remain."

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436112/tom-perez-leftist-radical-hillary-clinton-vp-shortlist

Sounds more like Trotsky.

It's waaaay past time to stop litigating the 2016 Democratic primary and focus on what's important, man.

The Republic is on the line, and you want to cry about who got the DNC chair??

C'mon, man!

Absolutely, Wordslinger, Sal is right.  This is one reason I cautioned you about your anti-Hillary rhetoric in the primaries.  In REALITY, Hillary was the most qualified of all the candidates running...from First Lady, to Senator, to Secretary of State.  POTUS would have been a natural step for her.  And don't think I'm in any way dissing Bernie Sanders, one of my favorite people in the universe.  And, unlike Seaoat, I think Bernie's plans were doable...at least a point to begin negotiating toward.  I know you supported Ellison, but...isn't he a Muslim?  How hard would that have been for him in this current political climate?  Think about it.  Perez is fine.  Let's move on.

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If Democrats do not take more state houses the incredibly unfair gerrymandering will continue and the house will be out of reach for another decade. Yes, the demographics are changing, but this election proved to me some folks just are incapable of making the effort to vote.

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2seaoat wrote:this election proved to me some folks just are incapable of making the effort to vote.

A sleeping giant may have awakened

Last night in the Delaware Senate special election, the Dem won by 20.

In 2014, the Dems won by 2.

Something is happening.


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You're so right that something is happening. The pushback has definitely begun. Bannon said there would be a fight...he's right about that, but not in the way he anticipates.

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"Something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?" Bob Dylan

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Floridatexan wrote:
Sal wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:The election of Tom Perez as leader of the DNC is a clear statement from the old democratic establishment: We'll stay with our corporate sponsers and to hell with Bernie's Progressives.

These are the same establishment folks who fully supported Hillary's flawed run.  

There is a movement afoot to establish a new party to accept all the millions of former democrats who rejected Hillary.

As soon as that party is formed, I'm joining.  Fuck the DNC and corrupt campaign financing!

Jumpin' Jebus on a pogo stick ...

Suddenly, Perez is the tool of Wall Street and the darling of the corporatists??

The corporatist think tank Competitive Enterprise Institute sure as hell didn't think so when Clinton was considering him for VP ...


"His rewriting of U.S. labor law is probably the most fundamental attack on the free-enterprise system going on at present…If he has his way, we won't just revert to the 1930s. We'll do things that even Franklin Roosevelt couldn't do, like eliminate vast numbers of independent-contractor jobs and unionize those that remain."

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436112/tom-perez-leftist-radical-hillary-clinton-vp-shortlist

Sounds more like Trotsky.

It's waaaay past time to stop litigating the 2016 Democratic primary and focus on what's important, man.

The Republic is on the line, and you want to cry about who got the DNC chair??

C'mon, man!

Absolutely, Wordslinger, Sal is right.  This is one reason I cautioned you about your anti-Hillary rhetoric in the primaries.  In REALITY, Hillary was the most qualified of all the candidates running...from First Lady, to Senator, to Secretary of State.  POTUS would have been a natural step for her.  And don't think I'm in any way dissing Bernie Sanders, one of my favorite people in the universe.  And, unlike Seaoat, I think Bernie's plans were doable...at least a point to begin negotiating toward.  I know you supported Ellison, but...isn't he a Muslim?  How hard would that have been for him in this current political climate?  Think about it.  Perez is fine.  Let's move on.


I'm not so sure about Perez. What bothers me most about him is the endorsement of Obama and Biden -- pure establishment!

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