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76 Re: Z on Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:02 pm

Damn... I hate this for him and your family. Best wishes... be sure to take care of yourselves too.

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77 Re: Z on Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:09 pm

I am very sorry to hear this. Please let him know we are all praying and hoping he can beat this. We had one of our dear forum friends go on a ventilator named Neko a few years back and she fought her way back, and got home and began posting again. Later she had another bout with pneumonia and we lost her. He can make it back. He can get off that ventilator. He can have quality time, but the most important thing which is in his control is to keep the fight and keep the plan. Day by day. It is not an easy journey, but your dad knows what he faces, so please let him know that we just are not going to give up on him, and tell him that even Mr. Markle would be pulling for him.....you will get a smile. Keep strong. The role of caretaker is never easy, but it can define a person's life with love and caring. Be that strong daughter that your father is so proud. Please keep us informed as you can. Your dad is important to a great many of us.

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78 Re: Z on Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:32 pm

Oh no......I hate to hear this but so glad he is aware. That is a good sign. Please let him know he is in my thoughts and prayers. Keep fighting.

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79 Re: Z on Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:30 pm

Please tell your dad I said, "What a revoltin' development THIS is!" But I like the encouragement Seaoat has offered and will hope strongly that our Z-man can indeed battle his way back. Can't wait to see him posting again! Will keep that picture in my mind as a talisman. C'mon Z-man - you can make it!

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80 Re: Z on Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:08 am

I really hate to hear that, hope he pulls through this.

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81 Re: Z on Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:07 pm

2seaoat wrote:I am very sorry to hear this.  Please let him know we are all praying and hoping he can beat this.  We had one of our dear forum friends go on a ventilator named Neko a few years back and she fought her way back, and got home and began posting again.  Later she had another bout with pneumonia and we lost her.   He can make it back.  He can get off that ventilator.  He can have quality time, but the most important thing which is in his control is to keep the fight and keep the plan.  Day by day.  It is not an easy journey, but your dad knows what he faces, so please let him know that we just are not going to give up on him, and tell him that even Mr. Markle would be pulling for him.....you will get a smile.  Keep strong.   The role of caretaker is never easy, but it can define a person's life with love and caring.  Be that strong daughter that your father is so proud.  Please keep us informed as you can.  Your dad is important to a great many of us.

Thank you, 2seaoat, for your words of encouragement. And thank you to all of you. We are going on around 16 days since dad was at the ER. I don't have anything to update, as my mom and I haven't been to visit since yesterday afternoon. Meanwhile, I'm busy trying to keep my parents financial matters afloat. Dad has been the bookkeeper for several of our family members who lack the skills to do so for a long time now, and I'm having to pick up where he left off. "Keeping the ship afloat" is something that is extremely important to my dad, so I am trying my best to do that for him. Luckily, he is extremely organized, so I it isn't incredibly hard to do. Just a lot to take care of in all. I've always known this would be my job. My dad has always been a planner. Even before he met my mom, he was planning for times like now to make sure everyone would be taken care of. He has instilled that in me too to an extent. He got me a retirement fund when I turned 13, if that gives you any clue of the kind of person he is.

Sorry for droning on about him. Just felt that I would share a little more insight into the man behind Z.

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82 Re: Z on Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:35 pm

We love to hear about him. He's a genuine person and we all like him tremendously. He's described the poor financial situation of your relatives in California... and even the xtra home in Pensacola. It's so nice to hear you talk about him too tho. Please let us know if there's anything we can do to help. Some of us have medical backgrounds and others a variety of skills... and I know we'd like to help in any way possible.

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83 Re: Z on Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:47 pm

PkrBum wrote:We love to hear about him. He's a genuine person and we all like him tremendously.

I'll second that emotion!  Keep the stories coming, girl! (And I'm sure the others here agree you sound eminently capable of "taking over." Hope it will prove personally rewarding to you over time, even though a lot of work. You may even find a way to streamline some things - who knows?)

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84 Re: Z on Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:32 pm

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
2seaoat wrote:I am very sorry to hear this.  Please let him know we are all praying and hoping he can beat this.  We had one of our dear forum friends go on a ventilator named Neko a few years back and she fought her way back, and got home and began posting again.  Later she had another bout with pneumonia and we lost her.   He can make it back.  He can get off that ventilator.  He can have quality time, but the most important thing which is in his control is to keep the fight and keep the plan.  Day by day.  It is not an easy journey, but your dad knows what he faces, so please let him know that we just are not going to give up on him, and tell him that even Mr. Markle would be pulling for him.....you will get a smile.  Keep strong.   The role of caretaker is never easy, but it can define a person's life with love and caring.  Be that strong daughter that your father is so proud.  Please keep us informed as you can.  Your dad is important to a great many of us.

Thank you, 2seaoat, for your words of encouragement. And thank you to all of you. We are going on around 16 days since dad was at the ER. I don't have anything to update, as my mom and I haven't been to visit since yesterday afternoon. Meanwhile, I'm busy trying to keep my parents financial matters afloat. Dad has been the bookkeeper for several of our family members who lack the skills to do so for a long time now, and I'm having to pick up where he left off. "Keeping the ship afloat" is something that is extremely important to my dad, so I am trying my best to do that for him. Luckily, he is extremely organized, so I it isn't incredibly hard to do. Just a lot to take care of in all. I've always known this would be my job. My dad has always been a planner. Even before he met my mom, he was planning for times like now to make sure everyone would be taken care of. He has instilled that in me too to an extent. He got me a retirement fund when I turned 13, if that gives you any clue of the kind of person he is.

Sorry for droning on about him. Just felt that I would share a little more insight into the man behind Z.


We look forward to hearing from you....your dad has told us about managing and taking care of finances for family. He is obviously organized and that is a great thing to instill in you.

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85 Re: Z on Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:07 pm

I just left dad a little over an hour ago. Despite being ventilated, he is alert and awake. He can nod and has figured out a way to mouth words. I was able to understand some of them, but others were indecipherable. He was obviously quite frustrated. I've read that being unable to communicate is one of the biggest frustrations for ventilated patients who are conscious. I can understand that, and I feel frustrated for him. The amount of effort it takes to communicate seems to take a lot out of him, and after about 10 minutes he starts to snooze again. He also seems to be breathing in between the automatic breaths, which I was told is good, since that is the ultimate goal. That being said, they seemed shallow, so I'm not kidding myself that it is any sign of possible recovery, but it still seems like a good thing. Apparently, that also makes things uncomfortable because he is sort of double-breathing, I guess.

Anyway, I was able to talk to dad about things going on, and I told him your well wishes. We even had somewhat of a "conversation," as I could understand when he was asking me questions. I assured him that I've got control of things, and that seemed to put him at ease. In times like this, I find myself holding tight to any positive news because there really isn't anywhere to go but up from here. Things can always take a turn for the worse, as evidenced by the constant back and forth reports I've been making on here for the last 2 weeks, but if you don't have hope, what do you have.

Thank you, as always, for your support.

I'm sharing this song because it is one that Dad likes. One of the last concerts my mom and dad saw was Peter Frampton around 10 years ago. Dad said it was amazing, and that Frampton still plays like he did. I also have my dad's "Frampton Comes Alive" record Wink

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86 Re: Z on Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:37 pm

Thank you daughter Z. It is difficult for everyone.....the patient and family. Conscious ventilated patients are extremely frustrated trying to communicate, like you stated. They are sure they are speaking coherently....and family and medical staff seem to just placate the patient. My close friend and nurse co-worker had open heart surgery she kept telling the nurse, "prop me up" she said it several times....the nurse looked over patted her hand and said, " now sweetie you know we are not going to chop you up." She still tells us about it.

We are all pulling for your daD and hoping for the best. Stay strong and know we are here for you, your dad and your mom.

Prayers continue.

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87 Re: Z on Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:48 am

Frampton was fun.......we were young, and we celebrated what was taken for granted. However, he disappeared from relevancy and was virtually gone before we knew it. I find music to be very curative and even though we have become old farts, in our hearts we are youthful and free from care or worry. Your dad has lived an incredible life doing things many never imagined as a pilot. His love for his environmental work and his education at UWF in particular his joy in the coastal courses he took has given him a rich life of intellectual challenge and a wonderful family. He has posted your music as a proud dad, and as a father of a drummer who has played venues since he was in high school, and only giving it up with his second child, I know that music is a gift that parents can give to children which transcend age or generation. The breathing will hopefully improve, and hopefully he can return home and post again, but we have little to say in our journeys and all of us would like to sincerely express that your father has made our journey more meaningful. I miss his posts, and hope he can post again in the future. Continued prayers and stay strong.

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88 Re: Z on Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:51 pm

I saw Frampton as a back up for Alice Cooper back in 1980 in Indiana.

Z you better get better man, I don't want to do what you asked me a few weeks ago and I'm sure you don't want me to, but I will if it comes to that.

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89 Re: Z on Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:44 pm


Here's another one for you, Z:

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90 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:29 am

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91 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:10 am

I hope Z is doing well this morning.

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92 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:51 am

Hi, friends. It has been a few days since I updated. Dad's condition is the same. He hasn't gotten worse and hasn't necessarily improved either. At the same time, I've been able to "talk" with him, as he is completely and totally alert (except for the frequent napping). I was finally able to decipher what he has been trying to tell me for the last few days by using yes or no questions and starting with broad categories that narrow down to more specific subjects. When I finally got it, he opened his eyes wide and nodded pretty vigorously. I thought it was something serious, and it turned out to be pretty mundane. He wanted to ask about a piece of equipment he uses that needs to go to the shop. Lol.

Anyway, one of dad's doctors called my mom yesterday and told her that we need to consider giving dad a trach, since his respiratory function on his own has become very weak. One of my dad's nurses broached the subject with him to take the pressure off of us, which I appreciate. I didn't like thinking that I knew something about his health that he didn't. He understands the implications. My mom, understandably, has many unanswered questions, as doctors in these types of situations tend to talk "at you" rather than "to you." She has requested to have a conference with his different doctors so that she can get her questions answered. We will see. She talked to dad last night about the situation (which was after I was there), and he is in the know about everything. Because he can't talk for himself, he and mom both agreed that no decisions are to be made without her being there. He has never wanted a trach, as he knows people who died from infections because of them. She told him that she will respect his wishes if he doesn't want it, and if he does want to try it, we will all rally around him to try to make it work. Those of you who know dad privately might understand why coming home will be an extra challenge.

When I come on the board here and read your messages, I find myself mourning my dad's loss of independence as a result of this hospitalization. I read his messages to you, and I wish so badly that he could be back on here posting, spending his days at the computer like he always did. If he is able to come home, I don't think he will be able to pick up where he left off. I feel bad that he can think for himself completely, but he can't move or speak. As my mom said, it's like having a car with a perfect computer, but the engine is blown. I guess I'm feeling a little sad today. I find myself reminiscing a lot about the person my dad is and the father he has been to me. Me and my closest girlfriends all have talked about in the past about how we have great dads who believe in us, and how that has been so important to us growing up to be strong, confident women.

Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent again. Thank you for listening.

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93 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:49 pm

Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent again. Thank you for listening.

That is what we do here......tangent is good. I just wish I understood better what is inhibiting his breathing because long term requires he breathe independently. It was a happy day when I awoke from the removal of my left lung lobe and I was breathing on my own. I take a lot of crap around here for telling people to get second opinions. I have had horrible mistakes made by doctors in my journey with cancer, and but for my being firm and telling a doctor I was seeking a second opinion, I would be dead based on how wrong doctors have been. I make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. A pulmonary second opinion takes courage because you do not want to offend the doctor, but my second opinion found that my lung was collapsed(not asthma which I was being told for six months), and that I had an obstruction which was the cancerous tumor in the left lobe(my doc never took and xray because he was convinced it was asthma, and he never gave a pressurized breathing test which my second opinion doctor found the obstruction in the lung after I tested positive on a pressurized breathing test. Your dad has never been afraid to speak his opinion, and he has high intelligence which he can give an informed consent, but if he is only getting one perspective, I am a firm believer to go out of network, be polite, but get a second opinion. I am bothered by their failure to give you a clear cause to the diminished breathing, and performing a medical procedure like a trach without better understanding the cause and scope of the problem in my humble opinion is simple incomplete.....it may be correct, but how do you know?

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94 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:08 pm

2seaoat wrote:I take a lot of crap around here for telling people to get second opinions.

You "take a lot of crap around here for telling people to get second opinions"??

Say what?

I don't know of anyone who would quibble the slightest with that advice, you old windbag.

Yes, get a second opinion, and of you're still not convinced, get a third.

When I was around eight-years-old, I developed a problem where the lymph nodes behind my ear would dramatically swell and become very painful.

My parents took me to an old ENT who did a lot of scary and uncomfortable tests and procedures, and he concluded that I had a tumor that would require surgery.

He wanted to open my entire face along the jaw line and said that the surgery would leave me with medium to severe scarring and disfigurement.

My parents and I were terrified and in shock, but luckily they had the presence of mind to request a second opinion.

The old ENT was miffed at the request, but there was a much younger ENT across the hall and he sent for him to look at the pics.

The younger doctor took one look at them and said this is an allergic reaction.

I was put on a regime of allergy shots that I continued for a couple of years and never had another problem.

Second opinions are a must.

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95 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:15 pm

I think my mom is sort of seeking a second opinion. She hasn't had a chance to talk to the pulmonologist, as the doctor who told her about the trach is only the general practitioner. The pulmonologist was supposed to call her this morning to speak to her, but he never called. We do understand the underlying issue surrounding his breathing troubles in general, and I am guessing that the doctors don't see permanent ventilator weaning as an option because of that issue. That issue and the pneumonia he got go hand in hand and have contributed to each other. We don't really know which one affected which more, if that makes sense.

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96 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:23 pm

I was put on a regime of allergy shots that I continued for a couple of years and never had another problem.


I think that conclusion requires a second opinion. No, much of the criticism I have received is that I am putting down local regional medical facilities...and asking folks to go to university or specialized medical facilities for the ailment which they are facing. My Pulmonary doc who discovered the tumor in my lung had only seen 2 of my tumors in his 30 year medical career which included teaching at the University of Illinois. Great credentials, but my pulmonary doc at Northwestern OPERATES on 150 endocrine patients a year, and he understood what my old pulmonary doc did not understand........second opinions are required and too much is at stake to worry about offending anybody.

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97 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:24 pm

Back in the fifties my Mom was having stomach problems. Her doctor did tests and informed her that she had a stomach tumor that needed to be removed as soon as possible. She sought a second opinion. Turned out that I was the stomach tumor. Some of my friends still claim the first doctor was right. Smile

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98 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:33 pm

[b]That issue and the pneumonia he got go hand in hand and have contributed to each other.[/b

Your father has shared some of his systemic issues over the years, but even those issues and the new pneumonia need to be revisited with a specialist where they can review the medical records. Your dad has researched his challenges, but medical science is moving at the speed of light and finding the best to give a second opinion is essential. Sal was lucky that the guy across the hall had the courage to question a fellow doctor, but this process is very important. I feel terrible about a forum member who has passed not being more successful in getting him to go to Houston for treatment. So many good people on this forum came to his aid, but the most important step simply was not executed and in the end I had some real questions about his local care and another forum member we lost who shared the same doctor who did a procedure on the brain. Monday quarterbacking is easy.......probably nothing would have changed. I certainly do not want to create any stress, but I have seen this up close and personal and the mistakes are shocking.

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99 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:55 pm

2seaoat wrote:Your father has shared some of his systemic issues over the years, but even those issues and the new pneumonia need to be revisited with a specialist where they can review the medical records.

I agree with you there. My mom has a care meeting at 4:15, and I will try to relay some of your advice to her beforehand. I appreciate your guidance. I think we definitely need to be proactive in our handling of things. My aunt, dad's sister, is apparently coming in from California, and I think she may be able to help make sure all the avenues are explored. Dad was hospitalized with pneumonia in 2008, and we were basically told that he needed to start receiving palliative care. One doctor dissuaded the rest of the team from giving dad a trach, and dad believes it saved his life. Granted, we are nearly 10 years later and dad is older. It is harder to kick things at 65, and I'm not unrealistic. Still, we have experience with knowing that doctors do not know everything. So many times, they are just kind of shooting in the dark.

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100 Re: Z on Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:11 pm

Just more well wishes. It sounds like y'all are on the right track to me. Never hesitate to question their strategy... or authority.

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101 Re: Z

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