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26 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/26/2016, 2:23 pm

DeAndre Liggins puts the clamps on the splish-splash boy.

Pay attention. The MVP has been in a slump for three weeks. Kerr has repeatedly addressed the same. However, the cavs played good defense, but the game was won by offensive rebounds.

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27 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/26/2016, 4:52 pm

Splash splash! Splash splash! Hey guys! Look! I'm open! Over here!


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28 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/26/2016, 5:58 pm

It is obvious burning you up that all these other great NBA stars have out shined James in the last 10 years, and with only three rings, of course I would attack the first unanimous MVP. This year four players are playing better than James, and if Russell continues to do what he is doing, that GOAT thing is going to be secondary......he has barely been the dominate player of his era, and he certainly has not earned the rings.......he is the mailman.......all kinds of individual stats, same shooting skills, same big body, and the mailman is number 2 in scoring which is remarkable, but he did not dominate his era, and in the end is never considered top ten in GOAT analysis. It is what it is. Now if he wins this year and next.....whole different discussion.

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29 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/26/2016, 7:02 pm

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/bayless-irving-is-cavs-mvp-not-lebron/vi-BBxAu6J

A lot of people do not even think James is the MVP of the cavs.....just saying. I do not agree with that, but Irving up to a week ago was the leading scorer on the team, and playing better defense than James. How can you be the goat when many people think he is not even the best player on two of the teams he has gotten rings......Wade and Irving are seen as the better players. I disagree with that viewpoint, but it is a popular viewpoint.

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30 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/26/2016, 8:50 pm

2seaoat wrote:

Pay attention.  The MVP has been in a slump for three weeks.  Kerr has repeatedly addressed the same.  However, the cavs played good defense, but the game was won by offensive rebounds.

You shouldn't be defensive.

Liggins is the defensive stopper.

He always has been.

He knows his role.

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31 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/26/2016, 11:32 pm

The Bulls won, but I am totally befuddled by their coach. He continues to not control the floor in the 3 and 4th quarter. The Pacers just cannot get their act together, and the Bulls almost lost again. George needs to go to a contender. This guy is one of the most under rated two way players in the league. I feel his career has been wasted with the pacers.

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32 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/27/2016, 1:33 pm

2seaoat wrote:It is obvious burning you up that all these other great NBA stars have out shined James in the last 10 years, and with only three rings, of course I would attack the first unanimous MVP.  This year four players are playing better than James, and if Russell continues to do what he is doing, that GOAT thing is going to be secondary......he has barely been the dominate player of his era, and he certainly has not earned the rings.......he is the mailman.......all kinds of individual stats, same shooting skills, same big body, and the mailman is number 2 in scoring which is remarkable, but he did not dominate his era, and in the end is never considered top ten in GOAT analysis.   It is what it is.  Now if he wins this year and next.....whole different discussion.


The mailman never defeated a 72-9 team in the finals on the road to win a ring.  Neither did Jordan.  

Splish splash!

Oh, and LeBron sat out last night against the Pistons.  The team that you say would win the east without LeBron lost to the Pistons.  This was only a night after LeBron put up 36 points and 14 rebounds in a win over the super team Warriors.


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33 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/27/2016, 2:22 pm

Yep, like the warriors beat the Cavs like a drum when the star of the team did not play in the finals.....you cannot have it both ways. Like I said some do not even think he is the MVP of the cavs, I disagree......he is the MVP of the cavs. Not the NBA again this year. Kind of helps you to understand he is not the goat yet.......lots of work to do. It is a longshot, but he can achieve goat in three years in my opinion......two more rings narrows the debate, three more rings meet the new goat.....it really is no more complex than that......oh he finally did get his point average above his team mate.

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34 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/27/2016, 5:06 pm

2seaoat wrote: It is a longshot, but he can achieve goat in three years in my opinion......two more rings narrows the debate, three more rings meet the new goat.....it really is no more complex than that......oh he finally did get his point average above his team mate.


We can't really say that LeBron would be the GOAT in three years with three rings without knowing the context of those rings.  Here again is another reason why your NBA analysis can be easily dismissed.  What if there are fluke injuries in the west, the Cavs remain healthy, and end up getting three rings over historically weak competition?  These type of things have to be accounted for when you're trying to isolate the value of the individual player.  This flies well over your head, but I'm explaining mainly for anyone else reading this.  Not every ring is equal.   LeBron's last ring, for example, is more impressive than any of Jordan's rings.


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35 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/27/2016, 5:21 pm

Jordan:

91' ring - Bulls SRS rating = 8.57; Lakers SRS rating = 6.73
92' ring - Bulls SRS rating = 10.07; Blazers SRS rating = 6.94
93' ring - Bulls SRS rating = 6.19; Suns SRS rating = 6.27 *
96' ring - Bulls SRS rating = 11.80; Sonics SRS rating = 7.40
97' ring - Bulls SRS rating = 10.70; Lakers SRS rating = 7.97
98' ring - Bulls SRS rating = 7.27; Lakers SRS rating = 5.73

* - Only time in Jordan's career where he faced finals competition against a comparable team.

LeBron:

12' ring - Heat SRS rating = 5.72; Thunder SRS rating = 6.44
13' ring - Heat SRS rating = 7.03; Spurs SRS rating = 6.67
16' ring - Cavs SRS rating = 5.45; Warriors SRS rating = 10.38

Note the difference. Imagine if we had one super star player who lead his team to defeat the 10.70 SRS rated Bulls in the 97 finals. Well that is effectively what LeBron did in 2016, and it is considerably more impressive than anything on Jordan's resume.

Not every ring is equal. So when people say "if he gets three more rings, maybe..." you can instantly write off their analysis as bankrupt. They don't understand the fundamentals of the discussion.


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36 Re: NBA Basketball on 12/27/2016, 6:57 pm

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-cavaliers/post/_/id/3452/no-lebron-minor-problem-cavs-keep-stumbling-without-the-king


AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Coming into Monday night, the Philadelphia 76ers and Brooklyn Nets were tied for the worst record in the league at 7-22, a paltry .241 winning percentage. Meanwhile, the Cleveland Cavaliers rested LeBron James for the second night of a back-to-back after he had played 40 minutes on Christmas Day. The Cavs were summarily waxed 106-90 by the Detroit Pistons.

What’s the correlation between the cellar-dwelling Sixers and Nets and the defending champs? The loss dropped Cleveland’s record to just 4-18 in games in which James didn’t play since the start of the 2014-15 season, when he returned for a second stint with the franchise. That’s a winning percentage of just .182.

That’s right. Without James, the Cavs play worse than the worst teams in the league.



But in 2seaoat-land, the Cavs without LeBron are the best team in the east!


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37 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/4/2017, 8:50 pm

Well the Bulls play the Cavs tonight, and I believe the Bulls had some real match up advantages against the Cavs. The problem is Rondo has gone off the reservation, Wade has swollen knees. So we will see who plays, but I think the Bulls can beat the Cavs. They beat them once. They may be a little short handed tonight, but it should be a good game. As long as Irving is playing the Bulls risk defeat.

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38 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/4/2017, 10:11 pm

The Cavs without Irving and Love are toothless. The Bulls have Wade limping, Rondo pouting, and a coach on the hot seat because he has bungled this team. It is clear that Irving is the key to the Cavs as James fades with aging. He is playing a solid game, and made a great defensive play anticipating a pass, but without his two all stars to support him, they may beat the bulls who are leading at half, but they are not a very good team.

I think getting Frye back is huge as his three point shooting is above average. Back to work during the half. Bulls up by six.

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39 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/4/2017, 11:37 pm

The Bulls win easily. They have owned the Cavs the last two season and are 4-1 which is the best in the NBA against them with good match ups, but the obvious lack of their star Irving who makes this team click, and Love who is having a great season made this game pretty much meaningless. I am happy Carter Williams is jelling with the team, and it looks like Rondo is out as the point guard. The Bulls own the paint against the Cavs and Gibson and Lopez have just been walking on the Cavs. Butler did not play well until the fourth, but Frye looked good all game. James had a good game but stepped on somebody's foot and impressed me with his toughness because in the fourth he was back in but not playing at 100%. He just does not play as well as when Irving is on the floor.

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40 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/4/2017, 11:39 pm

You were right!

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41 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/5/2017, 12:19 am

You were right!

The Cavs and the Warriors have transitioned their game to the three point shot. I think the Warriors are soft in the paint, and I have argued all year so are the Cavs. I guess there are trade offs. The Bulls are 30th in the three, but their dominance in the paint has had them first or second in rebounding all year. Carter Williams is a 6-6 fast as hell good defense point guard who is going to make the Bulls better. I am sad about Rondo. One of the highest basketball IQs, but sadly his shot is gone. I do not know where he goes from here. He went to upper management on Saturday, and did not get to play tonight. It is a shame. I hoped this would work out for him, but with no shot, the Bulls were playing against teams who simply were double teaming Butler and Wade and leaving Rondo wide open.

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42 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/5/2017, 1:25 am

I have always enjoyed watching Rondo....one of my favorites when I followed the Celtics.

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43 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/8/2017, 2:25 pm

Cavs trade for Korver. With Smith injured James knows that the Bulls will never let them get to the championship without three point shooting and spacing as the Bulls own the paint. Smart move to add an all star caliber player to the team.

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44 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/8/2017, 3:01 pm

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Yep... excellent pickup.

But it's really about how the warriors play... just like last year. They lost their mojo... it's was obvious.

45 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/8/2017, 3:07 pm

PkrBum wrote:Yep... excellent pickup.

But it's really about how the warriors play... just like last year. They lost their mojo... it's was obvious.
So true....watched the Warriors lose to the Grissley's in over time.

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46 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/8/2017, 3:19 pm

So true....watched the Warriors lose to the Grissley's in over time.

The Cavs live by the 3 point play. The Warriors used to rule the 3 point but their big man got injured last year before the finals and it has not been the same team since. If either team gets slightly cold in their spacing or shooting, they can both be beat in the paint. The Grizzlies have a huge advantage in the paint, but the Bulls or Grizzlies will be beat if the 3 point shooters are hot on either team. The Cavs have significantly improved their team with Korver. The Warriors with only Green playing defense should never have lost that game in the fourth quarter, and it clearly indicates they need a good big who rebounds and plays interior defense before the trade deadline. They could get a great quality trade to get a good big, and maybe not give that much up.

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47 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/8/2017, 3:33 pm

2seaoat wrote:So true....watched the Warriors lose to the Grissley's in over time.

The Cavs live by the 3 point play.  The Warriors used to rule the 3 point but their big man got injured last year before the finals and it has not been the same team since.  If either team gets slightly cold in their spacing or shooting, they can both be beat in the paint.  The Grizzlies have a huge advantage in the paint, but the Bulls or Grizzlies will be beat if the 3 point shooters are hot on either team.   The Cavs have significantly improved their team with Korver.  The Warriors with only Green playing defense should never have lost that game in the fourth quarter, and it clearly indicates they need a good big who rebounds and plays interior defense before the trade deadline.   They could get a great quality trade to get a good big, and maybe not give that much up.


The Warriors could not hit a shot in the 4th quarter....nothing hit.

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48 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/11/2017, 8:32 pm

The debate of who the MVP is this year really does not even include James. How can one be the GOAT when during his career he was not even the best in any given season. I think Wesbrook has become a special player. Some are arguing Harden is going to get it, but his defense should never be rewarded with a MVP. Curry is not in the discussion. Leonard and Butler however are getting recognized for their stellar two way play. How do you not give it to Wesbrook this year?

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49 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/11/2017, 8:43 pm

Aren't there team problems with Westbrook and with Harden and his teammates?

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50 Re: NBA Basketball on 1/11/2017, 8:48 pm

I am unaware of those problems, but the OK record compared to Houston indicates Hardin is winning more games. I just love the way Adams plays for OK. He is one of my favorite big men in the NBA. Think about how good was OK when they had hardin, wesbrook, and Durant. If they could have had Adams at that time they would still be winning titles.

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