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Prayers for the families, loved ones and friends of those who burned to death in the Oakland Warehouse fire.

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Prayers for the families loved ones and friends of those who burned to death in the Oakland Warehouse fire.

I can't imagine the terror these victims felt as they realized they were trapped in a building engulfed in flames.

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Horrible.

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Horrific beyond words.   Guess these poor young people weren't among the "blessed."  Sad

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RealLindaL wrote:Horrific beyond words.   Guess these poor young people weren't among the "blessed."  Sad

You're one sick puppy.

I sincerely feel sorry for you.

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Markle wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:Horrific beyond words.   Guess these poor young people weren't among the "blessed."  Sad

You're one sick puppy.

I sincerely feel sorry for you.



Rolling Eyes

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Markle wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:Horrific beyond words.   Guess these poor young people weren't among the "blessed."  Sad

You're one sick puppy.

I sincerely feel sorry for you.
It's unbelievable!

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Joanimaroni wrote:
Markle wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:Horrific beyond words.   Guess these poor young people weren't among the "blessed."  Sad

You're one sick puppy.

I sincerely feel sorry for you.
It's unbelievable!





Rolling Eyes

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I'm sick because I DARE TO EXPRESS MY OPINION on a matter of popular theology??

YOU PEOPLE are the SICK ones -- and the ones who pretend to decry "political correctness."   Good holy grief.  

Thanks, Tel -- I agree -- this is a real eye roller.      Rolling Eyes

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What did "blessed" have to do with the horrific tragedy?

PkrBum wrote:What did "blessed" have to do with the horrific tragedy?


Rolling Eyes

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RealLindaL wrote:I'm sick because I DARE TO EXPRESS MY OPINION on a matter of popular theology??

YOU PEOPLE are the SICK ones -- and the ones who pretend to decry "political correctness."   Good holy grief.  

Thanks, Tel -- I agree -- this is a real eye roller.      Rolling Eyes

Why in the world do you think that people expressing their sadness and offering prayers to the families and loved ones of a horrid tragedy is the appropriate place for a Heathen to cast aspersions on those families and loved ones or those who express their sympathies?

If you had nothing good to say, on a thread simply expressing people's sympathy toward innocent people who have suffered such a grievous, horrific loss, why say anything at all?

Could you not have simply expressed your sympathies for those families as well? No, of course not, that would show character and maturity. Forgive me.

Again, I feel so sorry for you and this obsession you have to hurt other people.

May God Bless you!

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Markle wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:I'm sick because I DARE TO EXPRESS MY OPINION on a matter of popular theology??

YOU PEOPLE are the SICK ones -- and the ones who pretend to decry "political correctness."   Good holy grief.  

Thanks, Tel -- I agree -- this is a real eye roller.      Rolling Eyes

Why in the world do you think that people expressing their sadness and offering prayers to the families and loved ones of a horrid tragedy is the appropriate place for a Heathen to cast aspersions on those families and loved ones or those who express their sympathies?

If you had nothing good to say, on a thread simply expressing people's sympathy toward innocent people who have suffered such a grievous, horrific loss, why say anything at all?

Could you not have simply expressed your sympathies for those families as well?  No, of course not, that would show character and maturity.  Forgive me.

Again, I feel so sorry for you and this obsession you have to hurt other people.

May God Bless you!




But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Luke

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My "obsession,"  to use your own insulting word, Markle, is something I've spoken of before, and has nothing to do with whether or not I feel sadness and sympathy for the victims, their friends and families, which of course I do, being just as deeply human (if not likely more so) than you.   I expressed that in my post, but I also expressed, with tears, my enduring dismay at how so many believers love to say they've been "blessed" by their god, praising him/her/it for favors granted to them ranging from the big picture -- a wonderful,  happy and healthy life, or, say,survival of cancer -- to things tiny and incidental -- the winning of a football game, for instance -- while something like this -- the horrific, suffering deaths of a group of young people -- is not allowed to be blamed on that same god for allowing it to happen, for various reasons ranging from the simple "It's His will, not for us to understand," to the more convoluted questions of free will and the existence of supernatural evil in the world, take your pick or pick another tenet.

I'm currently reading the story of Jaycee Dugard, the sweet, innocent 11-year-old child who, as many will recall, was abducted and held captive as a sex object for 18 years in a makeshift backyard structure by a horrid excuse for a man and his wife, and who, aside from being ripped from her family and held under terrible, humiliating conditions, and painfully raped day after day, had to bear two children by the criminal pedophile, the first at age 14.  My whole point is this: when the faithful talk about being "blessed" with things great and small, my heart naturally turns with dismay to the terrible, abject suffering of others on this planet -- including the Jaycees of the world and the young people burned alive in Oakland -- and ever questions the existence, much less the granting of favors/blessings by, this supposed loving deity who's worshiped by so many (in so many different forms in umpteen thousand different religious types and sects), but who at the same time does not apparently "bless" the sufferers on this Earth as he does the winning football team. That dichotomy seems to somehow be acceptable.  More power to you if you wish to accept that in order to believe in an afterlife.  As for me, I can't.

Look, it's precisely because I feel compassion, sir, that I experience this great doubt, not to mention sadness.   Seaoat has tried to say that my agnosticism provides me solace.  Far from it.  It's a state of eternal questioning that simply admits, and, eventually, accepts as probable, the inability of the human species to ever truly know - now, if ever - what it's all about.  It doesn't rock me to sleep at night, but at least I feel I'm being honest, not fooling myself.  Call that solace if you will.  

So I express myself as I did in the face of great tragedy, just as you express yourself by the public offering up of prayers.  I thought this forum was supposed to be about freedom of expression -- free speech, as you and your friends like to remind us.

Aside from the fact that the Pensacola Discussion forum is highly unlikely to be read by anyone directly touched by the Oakland tragedy, I'm not hurting anyone unless they allow themselves to be hurt by the honest, thoughtful questioning on the part of a fellow human being who is no longer "blessed" with the "gift" of knowing, or believing, or whatever one wishes to call faith, and who is deeply moved by the tragedy and suffering caused by this fire.

For this, you would condemn me.   So be it, but by doing so you only show your own lack of compassion and breadth of understanding.   Why does this not surprise me?

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PkrBum wrote:What did "blessed" have to do with the horrific tragedy?

My point exactly, Pkr.   (See above.)

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It seems an odd thread to make your point. But to each their own... right?

RealLindaL wrote:My "obsession,"  to use your own insulting word, Markle, is something I've spoken of before, and has nothing to do with whether or not I feel sadness and sympathy for the victims, their friends and families, which of course I do, being just as deeply human (if not likely more so) than you.   I expressed that in my post, but I also expressed, with tears, my enduring dismay at how so many believers love to say they've been "blessed" by their god, praising him/her/it for favors granted to them ranging from the big picture -- a wonderful,  happy and healthy life, or, say,survival of cancer -- to things tiny and incidental -- the winning of a football game, for instance -- while something like this -- the horrific, suffering deaths of a group of young people -- is not allowed to be blamed on that same god for allowing it to happen, for various reasons ranging from the simple "It's His will, not for us to understand," to the more convoluted questions of free will and the existence of supernatural evil in the world, take your pick or pick another tenet.



I wonder how many times in his life Markle has turned off the news - which may have included stories like the one from the original post or worse - and before he retired for the night, knelt before his bed, "...and please, god, please let me finally sell that 3/2 ranch style on Main Street. Please, god. Amen."


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RealLindaL wrote:I'm sick because I DARE TO EXPRESS MY OPINION on a matter of popular theology??

YOU PEOPLE are the SICK ones -- and the ones who pretend to decry "political correctness."   Good holy grief.  

Thanks, Tel -- I agree -- this is a real eye roller.      Rolling Eyes

What a jump from theology to political correctness, good grief. 

If you don't believe leave it at that....no one really cares. Instead, you useD the tragedy as an opportunity to castigate people who have faith. Pathetic

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Joanimaroni wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:I'm sick because I DARE TO EXPRESS MY OPINION on a matter of popular theology??

YOU PEOPLE are the SICK ones -- and the ones who pretend to decry "political correctness."   Good holy grief.  

Thanks, Tel -- I agree -- this is a real eye roller.      Rolling Eyes

What a jump from theology to political correctness, good grief. 

If you don't believe leave it at that....no one really cares. Instead, you useD the tragedy as an opportunity to castigate people who have faith. Pathetic



Rolling Eyes

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boards of FL wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:My "obsession,"  to use your own insulting word, Markle, is something I've spoken of before, and has nothing to do with whether or not I feel sadness and sympathy for the victims, their friends and families, which of course I do, being just as deeply human (if not likely more so) than you.   I expressed that in my post, but I also expressed, with tears, my enduring dismay at how so many believers love to say they've been "blessed" by their god, praising him/her/it for favors granted to them ranging from the big picture -- a wonderful,  happy and healthy life, or, say,survival of cancer -- to things tiny and incidental -- the winning of a football game, for instance -- while something like this -- the horrific, suffering deaths of a group of young people -- is not allowed to be blamed on that same god for allowing it to happen, for various reasons ranging from the simple "It's His will, not for us to understand," to the more convoluted questions of free will and the existence of supernatural evil in the world, take your pick or pick another tenet.

I wonder how many times in his life Markle has turned off the news - which may have included stories like the one from the original post or worse - and before he retired for the night, knelt before his bed, "...and please, god, please let me finally sell that 3/2 ranch style on Main Street.  Please, god.  Amen."  

You're one sick puppy! I feel so sorry for you.

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PkrBum wrote:It seems an odd thread to make your point. But to each their own... right?

Not odd at all, Pkr; this type of horrific tragedy is precisely the type of happening that makes "heathens" like me do all this questioning about why folks are asked to believe in a supposed loving god who bestows "blessings" on one hand and "taketh away" with the other, occasioning lifelong grief for those left behind.

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boards of FL wrote:I wonder how many times in his life Markle has turned off the news - which may have included stories like the one from the original post or worse - and before he retired for the night, knelt before his bed, "...and please, god, please let me finally sell that 3/2 ranch style on Main Street.  Please, god.  Amen."  

A valid wonderment, for sure.

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What a jump from theology to political correctness, good grief. 

Gee, Joani, I'm sorry that concept flew right over your head.  Too complex? Or perhaps I wasn't specific enough.  Please let me explain it to you.    As you know, conservatives frequently decry society's (they say "the left's") current-day policy of "political correctness," which, while it can in one sense maintain something of decency and decorum in inter-human relations, can also sometimes suppress what people are really thinking, what they would actually like to say if they weren't so restrained.  

Fast forward to this thread, where I expressed what I was really thinking on an issue of theology in the face of this human tragedy, while you and Markle apparently felt the thread called for a similar semblance of 'decency and decorum' that would preclude my honest expression of disgruntlement with the concept of blessings -- and I immediately got dumped on for it.  

Political correctness; religious correctness, if you will -- I don't see much difference.   Get it?

If not -- if that's still too difficult for your mind to grasp, I'm sorry but I don't think I can make it any clearer.  

If you don't believe leave it at that....no one really cares. Instead, you useD the tragedy as an opportunity to castigate people who have faith. Pathetic.

See above about getting dumped on.

OK, so you don't care whether I believe or not -- that's fine.  To say "no one" does, though, is - I think it's fair to say, ma'am -- a bit of rather high handed presumption on your part.  You don't speak for the entire forum membership.

Further, to say I "used" the tragedy is over-the-top punitive and ridiculous, as is the word "castigate" in relation to anything whatsoever I said about those who believe.  I'm not "castigating" anyone.  (Do you even know what the word means??)   I'm just expressing myself as a human being with deep doubts and a large amount of skepticism about the concept of divine "blessings," that some believers seem to bandy about so easily.

To act so outraged that I brought up my doubts in a thread about a tragedy is also over the top.  This thread is not sacred. This is not a church; it's a discussion forum, and people frequently stray into other thoughts triggered by the topic at hand.

Look, if we can't conduct reasonable discourse about things we disagree on in the rather close-knit microcosm of this forum, we are probably doomed.

But between you and your friend Markle, I'm nothing but pitiful and a sick heathen for saying what I'm thinking while my heart is hurting for this needless loss of young life.  If that's what your particular form of 'compassionate' Christianity calls for, I definitely want no part of it.  

In fact, the one person on this forum you most love to mistrust and put down -- Telstar -- probably posted the most valid WWJD response on this entire thread.

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RealLindaL wrote:
PkrBum wrote:It seems an odd thread to make your point. But to each their own... right?

Not odd at all, Pkr; this type of horrific tragedy is precisely the type of happening that makes "heathens" like me do all this questioning about why folks are asked to believe in a supposed loving god who bestows "blessings" on one hand and "taketh away" with the other, occasioning lifelong grief for those left behind.

Another Heathen going out of their way to prove their ignorance.

If one believes in a loving God, then you must also accept the existence of Evil and the Devil.

Do you not believe that Ted Bundy was evil? Or Charles Manson? Do you believe they, and others like them are evil or just like you?

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RealLindaL wrote:What a jump from theology to political correctness, good grief. 

Gee, Joani, I'm sorry that concept flew right over your head.  Too complex? Or perhaps I wasn't specific enough.  Please let me explain it to you.    

[...]

In fact, the one person on this forum you most love to mistrust and put down -- Telstar -- probably posted the most valid WWJD response on this entire thread.

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Another Heathen going out of their way to prove their ignorance.

Another believer going out of his way to be as insulting as possible to the non-believer.   How evangelical of you, Markle.

If one believes in a loving God, then you must also accept the existence of Evil and the Devil.

Says you and the bible written by men.  And that still doesn't explain why a divine, all-powerful, loving being either can't or won't interfere to stop that evil or devil, even when the most fervent prayers of the faithful are lifted up begging for help. We are asked to suspend all logic in order to accept your version of truth.

Do you not believe that Ted Bundy was evil?  Or Charles Manson?  Do you believe they, and others like them are evil or just like you?

Do you really care what I think? Joani doesn't.  Ha.   Anyway, you only give me two choices here: that these monsters are evil, or else they're just like me.  There's a third option, you know, and it's the one I happen to embrace:  that they are deeply disturbed, mentally ill human beings -- psychopaths, to be exact -- the ones the word "sick" should be reserved for, rather than for a law-abiding, compassionate, Golden Rule individual "like me" who dares question the existence of a loving supreme being.

No need to feel sorry for me at all. I'm quite well-balanced, matter of fact. Are you?

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