Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the 2016-17 NBA champions: Cleveland Cavaliers

Kevin Love puts up 40 while LeBron gets a triple double. As a team the Cavs went 21-36 from behind the arc. If they can manage to sort out their defense, we're looking at a dynasty.

They are third in the power ratings. Last year was truly historical. A 3-1 lead was overcome by a focused James. Contrary to his entire career of choking in the finals he achieved a third ring which I honestly never thought he would get. He did the impossible and I know that he proved to myself and many of his critics that he was not that bad, where I had him at 10-15 in the all time greats, but if you think he will have a cake walk this year.......I will bite. He may not even get out of the east this year. He cannot beat the Warriors and honestly should not have last year.

They will not beat the Bulls despite two of their key players injured. The reason is simple. Rebounding and good defense beats the Cavs. Bombs away does nothing. They play Friday. You will say it is only a regular season game, but the Cavs do not match up with this Bulls team very well. We will see who is right. I have been correct in three of the last five years, and I think I will make this four in the last six. One step at a time. Bulls win the December 2 game, despite their injuries.

2seaoat wrote:He may not even get out of the east this year.  

The finals won't be a cake walk, but they will be interesting. Golden State already had the best team all time, and they had to go out and add Kevin Durant. We're seeing the west build unprecedented super teams in order to stop LeBron James.

I think we will need to see what happens on Friday night in the Bulls game. I think the Cavs are actually better this year than last with the play of Frye, but I think the Bulls are a better match up with the Cavs than you will anticipate. I know it is only a regular season game, but I do not see a cake walk for the Cavs at all this year in the East. I understand that the East has been historically weak the last ten years, but the Bulls, Toronto, Bobcats, and Detroit may actually be able to beat the Cavs by the end of the season. I was wrong on the Bucks last year, but who knows, they may actually become a contender. Much tougher East this year.

The west has three teams. The warriors who remain the best team in basketball, the Clippers, and the Spurs. OK and Houston are one dimensional and cannot win a seven game series against Cleveland. I do not see any flukes this year in the finals. The better team will win.

I was wrong on the Bucks last year, but who knows, they may actually become a contender. Much tougher East this year.

They bitch slapped a soft cavs team......I mean when smith is talking to the bench of his opponent and allows an uncontested shot by tony snell, that is pure arrogance which could quickly spin out of control. The East is finally playing NBA basketball after a decade of letting weak teams go to the finals.

Cavs vs. Clippers thursday should be a good game to watch.

Cavs shit the bed in that one. JR Smith is having bad stretch of games on both shooting and defense.

There is something wrong with the Cavs interior defense play that I think teams have keyed on.......their offense in my opinion is better than last year.   They may not even win the East this year.   Three in a row losses is not panic time, but there is something out of whack on defense.

We have seen this play out again and again over the last six years. LeBron uses the regular season as practice. Little concern is paid toward records or home court advantage. Once the playoffs roll around, LeBron will put the team on his back and carry them to his seventh straight Finals appearance. And he may very well get a second ring in Cleveland, even in spite of the Warriors adding Kevin freaking Durant to their roster.

We've never seen a player like this before. I'm actually bored with the Jordan vs LeBron comparisons. That discussion is so over.

That discussion is so over.

Agree, James will never get higher than the five to ten range on Goat, but I disagree that the Cavs will win the east. I think you are ignoring some realities with this team right now. Could they get fired up at playoff time and win the East. It is possible, but there is something out of whack with the Cavs. They are a better offensive team, but they are soft on defense and interior play. I think James is playing the best basketball of his career within a team context, and last year was amazing, but he is regularly being beaten on defense, and Gibson and wade made him look like an old man last night. I still remember his block off the glass last year which is a confirmation of part of your argument that he can literally elevate his game, but his stain on his career remains that he is the perpetual bridesmaid. I think last year was the only true rebuttal to that argument where even folks who have NOT been that impressed with his career and rings had to give him credit. When good teams pound the ball into the paint and beat the cavs.......that is not some magic lightbulb which will come back on in the playoffs. Watch the games and see what really is happening.

Jordan never did anything even remotely close to this. No player in NBA history ever did anything like this. This is an objective fact. LeBron lead both teams in every major stat line - against a team that went 73-9. No one else has done that.

And let's be honest here. LeBron would already have two rings in Cleveland if Irving and Love hadn't been absent in the '15 Final. He took the Warriors to six with scrubs. If he had Irving and Love that series would have been over in five.

Greatest of all time.

Greatest of all time.


I have never heard one person on sports radio say the same, but keep the faith. Last night all four panelist said that James can NEVER reach Jordan. However, to deny how historic his play last year was is to deny reality. That probably will get him in the top ten when he retires. Few have been a better role model, and the truth is he is a better human being than Jordan, and that has to be factored also.

2seaoat wrote:Greatest of all time.


I have never heard one person on sports radio say the same, but keep the faith.  Last night all four panelist said that James can NEVER reach Jordan.  However, to deny how historic his play last year was is to deny reality.  That probably will get him in the top ten when he retires.  Few have been a better role model, and the truth is he is a better human being than Jordan, and that has to be factored also.

You're suffering from Baby Boomer Bias.  I'm sure that there will be a player in the future who will unseat LeBron as the goat, but I will refuse to accept it.   The stats will be right there in my face.  The games will be right there in my face.  And i'll cling to adages like "Well you just need to have seen what LeBron was like to understand..."

Watch these final three minutes from Jordan.  This is some of his best work, and it's weak as shit.   He got one steal, made it to he foul line a few times, and hit one jumper.  Whoopty freaking do.  And that is classic Jordan.  Then watch the video that I already posted.   There is absolutely no comparison.  If Scotty Pippen, Jordan's wingman, is telling us that there is no comparison, well, there is no comparison.  Pippen had a front row seat, and he's telling us that LeBron is better.  And it isn't close.

lol. Jordan basically just throws up bricks. His team gets turnovers and feeds him. He makes it to the foul line a few times. He hits one jumper.

This is the baby boomer version of the GOAT. Hahahahahaha. 2seaoat wants to be like Mike.

I agree with your initial comment that talking about this is boring. Not so much because it is not interesting in and of itself, but because James has not completed his career. I could be so wrong if he plays ten more years at this level, but it is the pure speculation on the one hand, or the errors of judgment that at this point in his career he has even got close to Jordan which make it such a dead horse. When he retires, like when others who were talked about as the next goat, we will see, but it has nothing to do with babyboomers, it is pure basketball.

2seaoat wrote:I agree with your initial comment that talking about this is boring.  Not so much because it is not interesting in and of itself, but because James has not completed his career.  I could be so wrong if he plays ten more years at this level, but it is the pure speculation on the one hand, or the errors of judgment that at this point in his career he has even got close to Jordan which make it such a dead horse.   When he retires, like when others who were talked about as the next goat, we will see, but it has nothing to do with babyboomers, it is pure basketball.

What, in your opinion, is the greatest performance from Jordan? Let's just pull it up right here an compare. We already know that LeBron is better statistically, but let's humor you. Take your time...

Six championship rings with two three peats which would have been 8 consecutive rings, but for a baseball two year hiatus is the only story. I have seen both play in person. At this point it is not even a conversation among basketball folks. If you show me some former players, or even young players still playing who agree with your beliefs, it will give some credence that it is an oldsters thing, but I honestly have never heard one person say he is the Goat, except on this forum. I have heard Kobe goat advocates. I have heard Kareem goat advocates. I have heard Russell goat advocates. All I have seen on James are articles of speculation that if he wins the rings he may be the goat before his career is over, but not one expert saying the same. I would put him in the five to ten range now, but that is the boring part of this conversation because what if he rips off four consecutive rings......he is the goat, and it is not that I have been wrong, but calling a foundation the tallest building in the world makes little sense. I hope I can find out the answer.

So you can't identify what Jordan's greatest feat was?   One more time for 2seaoat.  What was Jordan's greatest performance?   I will pull that up and put it up next to a shitty performance from LeBron, and there will be little doubt left.

Can you tell me what Jordan's greatest performance was?

I am answering the question. His two three peats was his greatest feat, which if he continued to play would have been an eight peat. Dr. J did some amazing things with a basketball, as did Russell, Kareem, and Kobe, but none of them scored 100 points like Wilt, yet Wilt is not considered in the conversation of Goat because greatness is not a good game, not a single stat, not the number of rings, but all of the above in combination. Keep beating that horse, and keep hoping that the discussion is not over this June. I argued last year the silliness would stop last year. He proved me wrong, but this year if he does not get a ring, it is over, and the way he is playing now ironically is the best basketball he has played in his career where basketball folks are recognizing his unique skills. So it never was the greatest player ever playing on the team of ages, but a great player building a career which will be judged when he completes the same.

So, to make sure you are not confused, if James can three peat even though he only has five rings, I will concede he is the goat. If he wins six rings, I will concede he is the goat. However, that would be some remarkable play being speculated about which has not been shown to date. If he only has three rings, he is a top ten. Period. I think after watching both play he is most like the Mailman who is the second highest point producers in basketball history which is an amazing individual stat, but not even considered top ten. Jordan's greatest feat was leading a team to six rings which should have been eight consecutive rings.

They will not beat the Bulls despite two of their key players injured. The reason is simple. Rebounding and good defense beats the Cavs.

Prophetic and the experts are beginning to agree.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/all-reasons-why-the-cavs-three-game-slide-matters/ar-AAl5zH0

turnovers are a major problem, too, with Cleveland last in the league in the three-game stretch (19.3 per game, compared to 13.8 for the season). James is the guilty party on this front, having racked up 20 during that span while posting a minus-35 plus-minus rating combined in the losses.

Therein lies the difference. Jordan had consistency in every game. Look through all the stats you desire, but having watched both men compete, one never stepped on the court with the inconsistency which James has shown both in the regular season and playoffs. A highlight reel seldom shows the lowlight reality of the James career, as all great players can have a bad game, but James seems to get the same in bunches and when it is crunch time.

The Bulls record season led by Jordan never had a three game losing streak that entire season. Greatness requires consistency. Eight rings if he wanted it, and James is struggling not to have a four game losing streak.

2seaoat wrote:Therein lies the difference.  Jordan had consistency in every game.  

And there is that baby boomer bias showing. "Jordan simply never had a bad game!"

5 for 19, 22 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, 5 turnovers. (1996 Finals)

LeBron gets eaten alive if he puts up a 22 point triple double, but in baby boomer land 22/9/7 is an epic masterpiece from Jordan.

Lil' Curry doesn't lead his own team in any stat line. MVP! MVP! MVP!

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Golden_State_Warriors/9/Stats