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A father of four is shot dead by police with his hands up

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I am sick of what this fascist police state has become. The tail is wagging the dog. There were multiple police officers, and one officer chose to shoot this man dead because she was afraid and claimed she thought this man was on drugs. The taxpayers will pay for one more settlement with a family, but the kids will never see their father again. It has gotten so bad with police misconduct in Chicago, that 500 million in police settlements with families and victims has resulted in taxpayers having their property taxes raised 500 million dollars. The time is NOW. We need to downsize. The era of super size is over, and the damage to America has been irreparable as the fear of brown and black people has become pathological.

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Disgusting.

And, people want to make an issue of Colin Kaepernick's peaceful protest.

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Its time for America to take a knee and pray. We have a fascist mob which grows daily because good people refuse to identify the arrogance of the police state, and the still systemic devaluing of brown and black peoples lives in America. My President deserves the respect for the office he holds, yet a white dixiecrat on the house floor can yell "you lie" in the most disrespectful manner ever, and we think that a black man in America who is on the streets in his vehicle will be treated with the respect every citizen of this great country deserves.......its time to take a knee, and I will do such praying that good people will finally say ENOUGH. We do not need dictators in America.....we do not need nurenburg type military rallies with jets flying over.......we do not need black folks murdered or stopped in America by false pretense as police go unchecked, we simply need justice. I miss T right now more than ever. A man with deep convictions about the abuses of Government. A man who took his Christian beliefs and was unafraid to question authority and the police state.

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Pkr would like to take this opportunity to steer the conversation to inner-city, black-on-black crime, please.

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You can't continually... on any given social issue... cede control to the State and then credibly have a complaint.

Shut up and give the govt the latitude to solve your problems. It's working so well.

Nobody ceded power to the police. It is the same dixiecrat southern strategy which Nixon started his law and order policy which melded into the post jim crow America where the black man is neutered and made powerless. This is all about the evil cabal of Dixiecrats, and just look at the election results in six weeks and prove me wrong. Where will a white person in Alabama, Georgia, or Mississippi vote for a Democratic Presidential candidate, and tell me when almost all states have a very close division in Republicans and Democrats why the former Democrats of the south have flocked to the Republican Party.....why is it on every Sunday I see twenty Santa Rosa squads in the highway by churches.........the future of America can be found in the Panhandle. When brave and courageous people say enough.......this country will move forward.

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Another Police screw up in North Carolina.....one more black motorist shot by police. When we have a racist running for President telling white people live in deplorable conditions and they have never had it as bad as today.......black men simply become expendables. There should be some more Americans kneeling at football games until this country addresses the four hundred pound gorilla in the room. I have been attacked here and on the PNJ for over ten years......I have been right. Morality is a simple choice.

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Hillary has already condemned this killing, and I find it interesting (but rather predictable) that, to the best of my knowledge at this point, Trump has said nothing whatsoever about it.

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Well, I wish I hadn't relied so much on the title of this thread, because it's WRONG.   I viewed both the the street view and aerial videos last night (which I should've done before speaking at all) and it's very clear that the victim's hands were NOT up when he was shot.  

The following excerpt from an AP story describes exactly what I saw:

Police video shows Crutcher walking toward his SUV, which is stopped in the middle of the road. His hands are up and a female officer is following him. As Crutcher approaches the driver's side, more officers arrive and Crutcher appears to lower his hands and place them on the vehicle before the officers surround him.

Crutcher can be seen dropping to the ground. Someone on the police radio says, "I think he may have just been tasered." Then almost immediately, someone can be heard yelling, "Shots fired!" and Crutcher is left lying in the street.

Police Chief Chuck Jordan said Monday that Crutcher had no weapon on him or in his SUV.


Yes, there are reports of PCP (angel dust) having later been found in the car.  That matters not in relation to the shooting unless it had caused Crutcher to do something threatening.  I sure didn't see it, but will again reserve judgment until we hear more about what supposedly caused the cop to shoot.

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There is no waiting or debating what happened. The man's hands were above his head. He was shot like a dog. The family will get a large wrongful death settlement, and the officer will be indicted. I do not live in a bubble. The whole slight of hand about once again attacking the victim is for those folks who live in the bubble. I do not live in the bubble.......I leave the fort and travel the wilderness..........only 40% of white Americans feel that Blacks are treated unfairly by the police while 70% of blacks feel that blacks are treated unfairly by police......this presumption of legitimacy immediately is used in every shooting........this shooter is a common criminal, and no amount of smoke and mirrors will change the decision. Officer indicted, and large wrongful death settlement.......I could care less if he had a dead body in the trunk where he stored his heroin, meth, and bath powders in between having sex with the body........you just cannot murder a person in America, and try to back door create smoke and mirrors to conform with white people's presumptions that the police operate within the law......sometimes they have to be held to the same standards you or I are held.

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Trump did not condone the shooting.

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Trump did not condone the shooting.

Correct. He implied the female officer was scared and choked. He has said nothing since his campaign started about male officers who shot unarmed black males. In any regard even Trump saw that this was negligent homicide. This officer will be indicted, but nobody is proposing that we change the law on deadly force, or create a system of special prosecutors for police shootings and violence toward citizens.....both white and black citizens. Our police state is simply out of control. I have seen the same for 35 years on the front lines of this criminal justice system. I have preached and gotten the same response on the PNJ and here which automatically gives the police the presumption that the victim did something wrong............I do not want to take anybody's presumption of innocence away, I simply want special prosecutors to take facts to grand juries and let the citizens of this nation take control of our criminal justice system which has been abdicated in a corrupt good old boy system.

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2seaoat wrote:There is no waiting or debating what happened.   The man's hands were above his head.   He was shot like a dog.

STOP IT. That is simply false.  His hands were NOT above his head when he was shot.  If you keep perpetrating outright falsehoods to stir the pot and justify your all-knowing godship, it will only serve to further diminish your long-waning credibility on this board.

YOU may not want to "wait or debate," but others who want to know the entire TRUTH will want to hear and see whatever further FACTUAL evidence comes forth regarding why the woman shot him.  There may not be any valid exonerating evidence whatsoever -- I'm inclined to think that's probably the case -- but I won't make myself judge and jury in a shooting incident the way you apparently have, nor certainly will I knowingly perpetrate a pure falsehood to suit my own purposes.

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It is not a falsehood, he was tazed while his hands were up and subsequently shot fatally by an officer who cannot justify the shooting because a justified shooting requires the officers life was in danger, or a member of the public's life was in danger. The officer who tazed, and the two other officers NEVER felt that there was an imminent danger to justify deadly force, and the standard of what a reasonable officer would do in this situation is PROVEN by the failure of any other officer confronting the victim to fire into the victim of this crime. Sorry, either understand the law, or get a new prescription for your eyeglasses as I watched a frame by frame on Msnbc with LEO experts saying the man's hands were up when he was tazed and then shot. If your argument is that after being tazed and a second before he was shot his arms were going down......a big duh. Let me ask you this simple question, do you wear glasses? However, we will all pretend to never have seen the video, and I will go with the lie originally posted that the victim was reaching into the car, except immediately that lie was met with the obvious fact that the window was up. Sorry, some people should not be police officers and I am so thankful that in Pensacola an officer who should not be a police officer did not shoot and kill commissioner May. Sorry, 35 years of seeing about 20% of people who should not wear a police uniform, and then watching the other 80% having to cover their sorry aszes gives me little patience for apologists who automatically defend wrongdoing. There are no other facts needed than the two videos. She will be indicted. The family will get a large wrongful death settlement. As to your snipe hunt......thank you, but I am not interested .

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2seaoat wrote:It is not a falsehood, he was tazed while his hands were up 

I find it nearly impossible to believe that he was tazed and then slowly lowered both hands to lean on the car.  That is certainly not what we normally see as a reaction to being tazed!!  And I don't care about your supposed frame by frame view; for myself I see NO evidence that anything at all was done to him while his hands were up.  

This so reminds me of the "Hands Up Don't Shoot" protests, based on yet another instance in which it was later shown that the person did NOT have his hands up when shot.

As for all your predictions of what will happen with this case, you may be right, or you may be wrong.  Time alone will tell.  Further, I am NOT an apologist for the police; I am simply admitting that I shouldn't have believed the man was shot (or even tazed) while his hands were up simply because you and/or your title thread said so.  THAT, sir, is the kind of thing that encourages the very mob mentality that you so love to decry.

As for accusing me of sniping,  are you kidding me??? That's the quintessential example of the pot calling the kettle black.  And I'm certainly not interested in your snipes either, thank you very much.

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As for accusing me of sniping, are you kidding me??? That's the quintessential example of the pot calling the kettle black. And I'm certainly not interested in your snipes either, thank you very much.

I am here to educate. Please look up snipe hunt, and see if you comprehend. In boy scouts older scouts would always take younger scouts into the middle of the woods and abandon them under the pretense they were looking for snipe. Usually each scout is given a canvas bag to capture the snipe. Read and learn, and quit being the embodiment of Glen Close going crazy........relax......I only mess with people I like.

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2seaoat wrote:As for accusing me of sniping,  are you kidding me??? That's the quintessential example of the pot calling the kettle black.  And I'm certainly not interested in your snipes either, thank you very much.

I am here to educate.  Please look up snipe hunt, and see if you comprehend.  In boy scouts older scouts would always take younger scouts into the middle of the woods and abandon them under the pretense they were looking for snipe.  Usually each scout is given a canvas bag to capture the snipe.   Read and learn, and quit being the embodiment of Glen Close going crazy........relax......I only mess with people I like.


Please be assured you're one of the last people on earth I would ever want or need to be educated by.  It's perfectly understandable, since you're such a forum sniper type, that I would've interpreted it the way I did.   In fact, your implying that I was sending you on a snipe hunt makes no sense whatsoever.

As for your Glen Close statement, you, sir, can quit being the embodiment of a patronizing male chauvinist pig.   I am perfectly relaxed, certainly enough to see very clearly that you have a disturbingly weird way of showing you supposedly like someone.

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The question I have is why has this man been approached in this manner?His car was broken down reportedly in the middle of the street so why does he even have to have his hands up? Is this how citizens now have to act when interacting w/ police? Or is this the way black people are now approached?

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This is 2016.

How is it that the Tulsa Police Department is not equipped with body cams??

Someone needs to be held accountable.

As for the mindset of Tulsa police officers when encountering black males, the description from the officer in the helicopter of the shooting victim as, “a bad dude, could be on something,” is very illuminating.

If that was the reaction of an officer from 700 feet in the air, the officers on the ground must've been in a blind panic.

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The question I have is why has this man been approached in this manner?His car was broken down reportedly in the middle of the street so why does he even have to have his hands up? Is this how citizens now have to act when interacting w/ police? Or is this the way black people are now approached?


Good observation.

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your implying that I was sending you on a snipe hunt makes no sense whatsoever.


It is like watching Hannity last night. He kept wanting to take the viewers down a path looking for snipes. He proposed that the NC man either had a gun or he had a book, and if he had a gun, the shooting was justified. That is a snipe hunt. Nobody will bag that imaginary snipe which only exists in Hannity's mind which clearly does not understand the standard for the use of deadly force by LEO, and thinks that people exercising their second amendment right can be shot.

The fact is that no snipe hunt is needed to know a citizen can have a gun and a book and still not be entitled to be shot because an officer subjectively believes the public is in danger or the officer is in danger. If the victim expressed a warning that he was going to shoot their asz if they did not leave him alone, as we are now learning some of the officers were in plain clothes, and if the victim made a move for that weapon to fire upon the officer, then would a reasonable well trained law enforcement officer in that situation be justified to use deadly force.......this of course would be expert testimony, the officers testimony, witness, and video evidence which would be presented to a jury with instructions from the judge as to an exception to negligent homicide. However, I do not want to take that snipe hunt with Hannity, or spend one second on one with you where you fail to recognize what is relevant. In regard to the Glen Close comment, even Dreams who we have epic debates and has called me an idiot, does not take any of this seriously what we do here.....sometimes I think you get weirdly serious and offended if someone counters your arguments......if that observation makes me a chauvanist........well I treat people badly male and female who bring their D game to an intelligent conversation. Now if you said I was an arrogant dick......could not argue a bit......you would just have to get in line......and that line from the PNJ days is a mile long.

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2seaoat wrote:Another Police screw up in North Carolina.....one more black motorist shot by police. When we have a racist running for President telling white people live in deplorable conditions and they have never had it as bad as today.......black men simply become expendables. There should be some more Americans kneeling at football games until this country addresses the four hundred pound gorilla in the room. I have been attacked here and on the PNJ for over ten years......I have been right. Morality is a simple choice.

Guess you are feeling stupid about this post now given that the narrative was wrong and the perp had a gun

Tellthetruth wrote:

Guess you are feeling stupid about this post now given that the narrative was wrong and the perp had a gun

On Tuesday, Putney said officers were executing a search for a man with outstanding warrants when they witnessed Scott get into a car with a handgun. Scott was not the man they were looking for, but police engaged him when he then got out of and back into the car with the gun, Putney said. Officers approached Scott and gave him multiple warnings to drop the weapon, Putney said. Scott then attempted to get out of the vehicle with the gun in his hand, which is when he was shot by Officer Brentley Vinson, who is black and has been placed on administrative leave, as is standard procedure in such cases. Vinson has been with the department for two years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/keith-lamont-scott-shooting-charlotte-police-say-he-was-holding-a-gun-when-shot/

Aren't you a big Second Amendment fetishist?

The cops knew that Scott was not the dude for whom they were looking.

North Carolina is an open carry state.

So, the police had no reason to confront him.

Under the doctrine of equal protection, the cops should've minded their own business.

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I can't stand the entire apparatus built for social controls. There was no reason to detain this citizen. There's no reason to gather our data... there's no reason to prohibit or mandate our actions, choices, decisions that cause no other harm.

But the answer isn't violence... it's a realization.

Guess you are feeling stupid about this post now given that the narrative was wrong and the perp had a gun



Actually, I rarely feel stupid on this forum. The fact that the victim had a gun in an open carry state is not a crime. It is not proper probable cause to confront a citizen who is lawfully carrying a weapon under his second amendment right. The law enforcement agents articulated something which will bite them in the asz later, but if I choose to walk down the street with a gun in NC it is legal. The police chief in NC has said the man did not show any aggression, his hands were at his side, and he was backing up. I see the photo of a gun on the ground in a still photo. Without context, this could be an apple or a phone absent video showing that he pointed his phone, apple, or gun at officers, but the police chief tonight said he did not see that in the photos and videos. I am very suspicious of the gun right now and its position at the man's feet in a photo, just as I was suspicious where the gun was when a 17 year old kid was brutally ran over in Pensacola while riding a bike black at night. If you are now saying that an officer can shoot you because you open carry in NC, you are simply silly, but open carry in my mind is just stupid and folks need to keep their arms in their homes, or have a proper conceal and carry permit, but I would like only 1 thousand folks in each state who are private investigators, or people who can meet a criteria of threat. This weak scardy cat environment where grown men are walking the streets with guns.....is something a person who grew up at a gun club shooting with my family just does not understand. I was 8 years old when I shot my first Turkey at a turkey shoot at thanksgiving.....30-06 sighted with the turkey behind a telephone pole which was laid on the ground at a hundred yards......I remember the turkey was great, not like the pheasant I hunted with my father and had to clean the shot out, and chew on the pellets while eating.......but carry a gun......I have never been that scared.....I do not get it, and I understand completely how scared police are right now.....your insane policy of every wimp and gang banger carrying a gun is simply a logical precursor for mistakes.

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