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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » Change

Change

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RealLindaL
Hospital Bob
Sal
Hallmarkgard
8 posters

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1Change Empty Change 7/11/2016, 2:23 pm

Hallmarkgard



As I get older, I hope I have left the world a little better place than when I was born.  Some of my lifes actions have been less than stellar.  But like most all of us, we have tried to over some our short comings.  We will not know much,if any, of the good we have done.  People judge us by our actions more than our words.   We had no control; over where we were born and who are parents were.  Contrary to the opinions of some, People can change and break from the mold  from which they were cast.  Much change is brought about by simple one on one contact.   A smile, a thank you, a nod of the head, letting some one advance in a line is very powerful.  

Sea Oats and Sals rants only confirm how wrong people can be..I It is impossible in a forum to defend your self from your heritage and color of your skin.

2Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 2:37 pm

Sal

Sal

Let's try a little honesty.

I don't know you.

You may be the kindest most genteel human on the face of the planet.

My criticism was very specifically of what you wrote on this forum.

You complained about the behavior of minorities and your constraint from criticizing them because of race.

You then informed us you were going to tell us something about "race relations" and trotted out your "and he was a credit to his race" story.

The insinuation was crystal clear.

You need a better dog whistle.

3Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 2:39 pm

Hallmarkgard



Maybe you missed this part.....Sea Oats and Sals rants only confirm how wrong people can be  Why do I need a new whistle? ..... You answered..

4Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 3:04 pm

Hallmarkgard



Here is my first post.  Where did I say I was critical of the behaviour of Blacks?  Where did I use the term "He was a credit to his race?"  You prove my point.  It is very difficult to offer a tribute to a good person with out people having a issue with a positive story.


Let me tell you a story about race relations.

At the shipyard we had no blacks that worked for us...We had maybe 50 to 60% Vietnamese and they did not get along with blacks very well.  Plus the Yard superintendent was a racist fro Ocean Springs Mississippi.  One day a young black guy named Donald Sapp asked me for a job.  I hired him as a labourer.  He was damn good worker. .  He always did what he  was assigned.  He never cussed and was all round good guy.  Soon he earned the respect of everyone.  Not because he was black but because he was a good person.   Slowly he started to change peoples options of those of color.  He did more for race relations than any one I have ever known.  No one had to defend him  He was a man, a real man.  Sadly he got sick with sickle cell and fell into bad health and passed away.  We closed the yard to attend his funeral.  Yes, even the boss from Mississippi attended and had changed his views.    We need more people like Donald Sapp.  Real people who changed the views of many people with his actions and courage....

5Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 3:42 pm

Sal

Sal

From one of your posts preceding the one you c&ped ...

Hallmarkgard wrote:

In our current society they is no proper way to critique the behaviour or actions of a black person by a white person. We all know this.


Then you inform us you're going tell us a story about race relations and trot out your "and he was a credit to his race" story.

Your implication is clear.

If black people would only conform to your arbitrary standard, then race relations would improve.

Run away from it all you wish, these are your words and your thinking on display.

6Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 3:57 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal knows more homosexuals than homosexuals do. So I'm sure he knows more black people than black people do.
That's why you need to listen to him when it comes to anything relating to homosexuality or race. He's the expert.

7Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 4:15 pm

Guest


Guest

Salinsky wrote:From one of your posts preceding the one you c&ped ...

Hallmarkgard wrote:

In our current society they is no proper way to critique the behaviour or actions of a black person by a white person. We all know this.


Then you inform us you're going tell us a story about race relations and trot out your "and he was a credit to his race" story.

Your implication is clear.

If black people would only conform to your arbitrary standard, then race relations would improve.

Run away from it all you wish, these are your words and your thinking on display.

What arbitrary standards?

8Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 4:15 pm

RealLindaL



I didn't get that at all from Hallmark's "In our current society" quote, Sal.  Read it again.  He wasn't being critical of black people in general; he was saying that IF someone (no doubt specifically a white someone) considers that a specific black person happens to be deserving of criticism (such as I considered Lumon May was, for example, in the incident we discussed ad infinitum), that there's no "proper" way of doing so these days because no matter what one says or how one says it, one is going to get dumped on and accused of being a racist by the likes of ridiculous Mr. Seaoat (who, btw, I would add, apparently believes a black man should be treated differently from a white man).

I, for one, can certainly see the truth in what Hallmark said, and FWIW I personally consider that that statement stands alone.

I didn't see anything about an arbitrary white standard, either.  The behavior that his black employee demonstrated was a standard of a good employee, period.  No one said he was a credit to his race.   What was said was that he was a great employee who happened to be black.   And if, as apparently resulted, certain previously biased white people learned from that experience of working with the black guy that in fact good employees come in all colors, GOOD.  That was a POSITIVE result.  

Why does everything have to be so G.D.  NEGATIVE all the time with some people??????    

Frankly, Sal, reading all you've posted , it appears to me that the only lesson Hallmark can possibly take from all this is that while he's aware he'd better not say anything critical these days, he can't say anything positive and upbeat, either, without being considered a bigot. It's a no win situation and it's wrong and I doubt many humans of any race could meet your own apparent standard of perfection here.

9Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 4:30 pm

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Well stated Linda.

10Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 4:51 pm

Vikingwoman



It WAS a credit to his race story,no doubt but at least Hallmark knew one good black man. LOL!

11Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 4:57 pm

RealLindaL



Vikingwoman wrote:It WAS a credit to his race story,no doubt but at least Hallmark knew one good black man. LOL!

Some of you guys are just too, too tough.

12Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 6:10 pm

Guest


Guest

RealLindaL wrote:
Vikingwoman wrote:It WAS a credit to his race story,no doubt but at least Hallmark knew one good black man. LOL!

Some of you guys are just too, too tough.

Just be careful to always agree with them... then you too can enjoy double standards and even outright hypocrisy.

13Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 8:17 pm

Sal

Sal

There's no hypocrisy.

Passive aggressive racism is still racism ...

... just without the balls.

14Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 8:55 pm

Hallmarkgard



Maybe it would help if we defined "Racism". Can you be a selective Racist? Or is it all or none? For Example, maybe I like Asians and Latinos better than I like Blacks. Is this a personal choice or is it some type of deep rooted character defect?

15Change Empty Re: Change 7/11/2016, 9:02 pm

Vikingwoman



I don't think we're too tough. I think we all have to admit we have some bias when it comes to race and confront that. Having grown up w/ racism in my family and despite close relationships w/ many black people I'm still not that comfortable being the only white person in a roomful of black people until I can gauge the atmosphere. It's just something we learned at an early age that should have never been taught.

16Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 12:42 am

RealLindaL



Salinsky wrote:There's no hypocrisy.

Passive aggressive racism is still racism ...

... just without the balls.


And passive aggressive judgmentalism can be every bit as harmful.   Oh, wait -- nothing passive about Sal's gratuitous judgments of others' minds and hearts.  He and Sea have a lot in common in that regard.

17Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 1:07 am

RealLindaL



Vikingwoman wrote:I don't think we're too tough. I think we all have to admit we have some bias when it comes to race and confront that. Having grown up w/ racism in my family and despite close relationships w/ many black people I'm still not that comfortable being the only white person in a roomful of black people until I can gauge the atmosphere. It's just something we learned at an early age that should have never been taught.

Maybe some of us of a certain age have long ago "confronted that" and learned to put away -- to the very best of our ability -- the biases we grew up with.  I think that's all any of us of ANY race or ethnicity -- since it goes both ways -- can reasonably ask of ourselves.

For some reason your "roomful of black people" statement brought back a strong memory of a funeral I attended for an elderly black woman I had regularly visited with and taken for outings from the Gulf Breeze assisted living facility where I volunteered.  During a couple of years of weekly one-on-one visits with Miz Agnes I had come to love her and was devastated by her passing, even though it was certainly not unexpected at her age (92).  (Aside:  that devastation finally convinced me I was not cut out for this line of volunteer work, as I tended to grow too close to my charges even though I'd been warned not to -- and I was particularly close to Miz Agnes.)

ANYway, to get to the point, hers was a graveside service and I was one of only two white people there.   I was not at all nervous or uncomfortable except for one thing:  even though there was some family in attendance (son, daughter-in-law -- the only other white person -- and Miz Agnes' beloved teenage granddaughter), I was obviously the only person to shed tears at the service.   I had to make a huge effort to hold back my sobs as I did not want to disrupt anything or draw undue attention to myself.  I found myself wondering if perhaps such stoicism on the part of the others was a cultural thing.   Or maybe she was just an old woman to them, though her son....well, he was a story for another day.

Don't even know why I'm telling this tale.   Surely someone will jump in and analyze it and call me a racist because of it.   Ha.

18Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 8:12 am

Sal

Sal

Change Captur21

19Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 10:59 am

2seaoat



There is little hope. Donald Trump is the creature of the systematic racism in America. He appealed to xenophobic racist fears and anybody who does not think he has a chance in the current systemic fear and history of Jim Crow and devaluing the Black person in America is mistaken. I am disgusted. I have black children in our family through marriage, and my grandson plays with a hyperactive mixed raced cousin who when he is old enough to drive in America he will be at risk. It has to stop. I have little patience for the rationalization that somehow we are in post racial America........that is the biggest fallacy of folks who are just fooling themselves. So many good Americans fought German fascism and the horrors of WWII only to have the same sprout in America. Like good German citizens who became part of the problem, America is at a cross road. Accepting the status quo is simply is no longer an option.

20Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 3:26 pm

RealLindaL



Salinsky wrote:Change Captur21

Thank you, Sal, for offering a perfect example of your absolute, high horse judgmentalism, and also for making my prediction come 100% true as to what would happen if I told that story about Miz Agnes.

Obviously, though YOU don't have the "balls" to come right out and say so, you're trashing my account of my relationship with Miz Agnes as nothing more than a "Some of my best friends are Jews"-type story.  Well, guess what?  I don't give a flying F what you think -- I told that story as I've never done elsewhere or with anyone except my husband, because I was remembering that funeral and missing Miz A., a person who was very dear to me, and I wanted to share that experience with y'all and maybe have someone volunteer to enlighten me further as to any cultural traditions regarding the expression of grief at funerals.  Silly me for daring to open my mouth.

When you, sir, find that you need to put down all the good things that people say here, all the positive thoughts and feelings they have (and yes -- I'll add -- the good acts they perform), indicating in your own often passive aggressive way (as in this case) that nothing others say or do can possibly measure up to your own obviously very superior set of impossibly stilted standards, you are clearly demonstrating a serious deficiency in yourself, and only you can know what that is.

But it's beginning to sound to me as though, to you, anyone in the world who isn't actually black, is a racist pure and simple, and nothing they say or do can change your opinion on that.   Very sad.  I wonder how someone with such consistently negative views of other people can get up in the mornings.

In any event, SHAME ON ME for not learning the lesson you have already "taught" our good-hearted forum member Hallmark, which is that any story whatosever told on this forum, no matter what the intent, is going to get put down by one of our all-perfect, all-knowing members, as only they are expert on what constitutes racism vs what constitutes simple human love.

So the rest of us have a choice:  Continue communications with the other forum members, for better or for worse, and learn to ignore, if not laugh at,  the ludicrous criticisms (passive or aggressive or a combo thereof) that will surely follow from the personality-disordered, or simply quit spinning wheels and wasting time and emotional energy, and leave the room.

Both options have their attractions.

21Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 3:29 pm

Hallmarkgard



I will continue on. Just consider the source

22Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 3:37 pm

Sal

Sal

RealLindaL wrote:
Salinsky wrote:Change Captur21

Thank you, Sal, for offering a perfect example of your absolute, high horse judgmentalism, and also for making my prediction come 100% true as to what would happen if I told that story about Miz Agnes.

Obviously, though YOU don't have the "balls" to come right out and say so, you're trashing my account of my relationship with Miz Agnes as nothing more than a "Some of my best friends are Jews"-type story.  Well, guess what?  I don't give a flying F what you think -- I told that story as I've never done elsewhere or with anyone except my husband, because I was remembering that funeral and missing Miz A., a person who was very dear to me, and I wanted to share that experience with y'all and maybe have someone volunteer to enlighten me further as to any cultural traditions regarding the expression of grief at funerals.  Silly me for daring to open my mouth.

When you, sir, find that you need to put down all the good things that people say here, all the positive thoughts and feelings they have (and yes -- I'll add -- the good acts they perform), indicating in your own often passive aggressive way (as in this case) that nothing others say or do can possibly measure up to your own obviously very superior set of impossibly stilted standards, you are clearly demonstrating a serious deficiency in yourself, and only you can know what that is.

But it's beginning to sound to me as though, to you, anyone in the world who isn't actually black, is a racist pure and simple, and nothing they say or do can change your opinion on that.   Very sad.  I wonder how someone with such consistently negative views of other people can get up in the mornings.

In any event, SHAME ON ME for not learning the lesson you have already "taught" our good-hearted forum member Hallmark, which is that any story whatosever told on this forum, no matter what the intent, is going to get put down by one of our all-perfect, all-knowing members, as only they are expert on what constitutes racism vs what constitutes simple human love.

So the rest of us have a choice:  Continue communications with the other forum members, for better or for worse, and learn to ignore, if not laugh at,  the ludicrous criticisms (passive or aggressive or a combo thereof) that will surely follow from the personality-disordered, or simply quit spinning wheels and wasting time and emotional energy, and leave the room.

Both options have their attractions.

Actually, my post wasn't directed at you personally nor was it meant as a response to your post.

It couldn't be, because I didn't even read your post until just now.

I just saw it on a blog I regularly read, thought it was pretty funny and appropriate for this thread.

But, you know, if the shoe fits ....

23Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 3:48 pm

RealLindaL



[quote="Salinsky"]
RealLindaL wrote:
Salinsky wrote:Change Captur21


Actually, my post wasn't directed at you personally nor was it meant as a response to your post.

It couldn't be, because I didn't even read your post until just now.

I just saw it on a blog I regularly read, thought it was pretty funny and appropriate for this thread.

But, you know, if the shoe fits ....


I was about to offer a sincere apology until I read your last line. You just couldn't help yourself, could you?

24Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 3:56 pm

RealLindaL



Hallmarkgard wrote:I will continue on.   Just consider the source

Good for you, Hallmark. As for me, yeah, I'm considering the sources all right, and whether or not I want to continue daily contact with them. It's so depressing. I really do wonder how such terribly negative people like this force themselves to get out of bed in the morning to face another day. My gawd, what a sad way to live.

In any event I'm absolutely certain no one here is holding his/her breath as to whether or not Linda will stay. I'll just think on it a while.

25Change Empty Re: Change 7/12/2016, 4:54 pm

2seaoat



All because I called you out on a terrible letter, everybody on the forum has become evil and bad. Social psychology says rather than even contemplate that the letter was inappropriate, that you attack individuals here. Your letter speaks for itself. There is nothing depressing about discussing the realities our society faces. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. That is a choice each of us can make.

Your memory is really flawed when you get angry. You forget telling us on the PNJ you had written an earlier viewpoint piece on fee simple and invited all of us to read it. Then you accuse me of outing you when I was simply defending you as a person and saying your viewpoint was valid, and you had already outed yourself.

I was a good person then because both those viewpoint letters took courage and were good. I defended you when people tried to take cheap shots. However when you write a letter which was cowardly and wrong, I told the truth. You did not like that......so you used vulgarity and anger to attack me. I get it. I have been speaking simple truths since I have been on the PNJ and fully understand the reaction. However, the truth that Pensacola Beach is the bubble and a person in that bubble attacking a black man wrongfully being stopped in his neighborhood without even the courage to write or talk to him directly.....again....the letter speaks for itself, and you can attack, or run away, but the Huckabee southern dream of grits and guns and a place on the beach is the political reality of the political death grip of dog whistle obstructionist politics.......deny if you want.......convince yourself otherwise, but like the letter the Huckabee political reality is very real.

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