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I just saw the video on the police stop on the TX driver who committed suicide

+6
Hospital Bob
Sal
TEOTWAWKI
Vikingwoman
EmeraldGhost
2seaoat
10 posters

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Vikingwoman



2seaoat wrote:Oats is mostly right on the generalities, but definitely wrong on some specifics.

You should confer with your daughter, Oats.

She'll set you straight.


That is what daughters are for to set you straight........but on this subject......well lets just say she and some of her fellow SA's seek my advice.   Nothing like an old handyman to give advice on how to fix things.  When you talk to one of those lawyers ask them if they have read Gant and Rodriguez which just came out in 2015(they did not if they say I am wrong on the specifics).....if they say I am wrong after reading those cases, get a new lawyer.

Considering your opinion on the May case and this case I would get a real lawyer rather than listen to what you said. You couldn't get straight the officer had a right to ask her to get out of the car until the end of these discussions.

Vikingwoman



2seaoat wrote:Oats is mostly right on the generalities, but definitely wrong on some specifics.

You should confer with your daughter, Oats.

She'll set you straight.


That is what daughters are for to set you straight........but on this subject......well lets just say she and some of her fellow SA's seek my advice.   Nothing like an old handyman to give advice on how to fix things.  When you talk to one of those lawyers ask them if they have read Gant and Rodriguez which just came out in 2015(they did not if they say I am wrong on the specifics).....if they say I am wrong after reading those cases, get a new lawyer.

Geez, I bet you they win a lot? LOL!

2seaoat



Geez, I bet you they win a lot? LOL!

Not as much as they used to win........still having police officers in court saying like in Gant......"I did that because I can under the law"......well thank you..... your honor.....I am glad we have cleared things up.

Vikingwoman



BTW, what does Gant have to do w/ this case? Gant was about search and seizure. None of that went on in this case.

2seaoat



BTW, what does Gant have to do w/ this case? Gant was about search and seizure. None of that went on in this case.

It has everything to do with this case.  Please read the fourth amendment.  Do not get caught up on the seizure or search component, that is elementary, to understand the evolution of exceptions to the warrant requirements of the fourth there is a tapestry of cases which flow covering both components and equally relevant if it is a search or seizure.  Markle just called me a liar in another thread when I explained I am a managing broker, he said there is no such thing as a managing broker, here you are not getting it, and honestly I would not expect you to get it because it takes years of reading supreme court cases to understand that some dicta in a case three years ago will change a standard of law next session.  Gant is one of the pivotal cases for prosecutors across America and they are getting their butts kicked right now because like Mays and this case there is an expectation in police unions, PTI, and seminars that an officer has the authority to do things because of the drug war exceptions developed over the last thirty years....rest assured that the court is doubling down on fourth amendment protections......and you do know that I mess with you to get you fired up, and that I consider you intelligent, but this stuff is more art than science and black letter statute.

Vikingwoman



What do you mean if you live three months? I thought you had a lot more time than that.

2seaoat



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trooper-in-sandra-bland-arrest-had-been-disciplined/ar-BBlhlzj

Vikingwoman



Well, that article certainly did the trooper more good than harm. He certainly is not going to be fired over this as you said.

2seaoat



Well, that article certainly did the trooper more good than harm. He certainly is not going to be fired over this as you said.

He is gone.  You cannot even turn on your TV without seeing another officer F'lng up like the May stop and ignoring citizen's rights.  It is an epidemic exactly as I have outlined in the Mays thread......the rush to make it about rude citizens....hell no.....its about bad training and a complete transformation in America where the tail is wagging the dog. 

No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
Madison

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


That poor woman never had a chance. How anyone could think the cop in this instance acted lawfully, when he threatened to "light her up" when she would not exit the vehicle...he had no reason to require that she get out of the car. She can be heard saying that he threw her to the ground and she couldn't hear...sounds like a concussion.

This feels personal to me...my sister lives in Waller Co. I visited her in Feb. 2008 and had a confrontation with her husband, who is an ass, over his repeated use of the "N" word, which has caused a rift between me and my sister that I'm afraid will never heal.

And I wonder what really happened in Sandra Bland's cell.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/31470-sandra-bland-was-murdered

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

I wonder why Bland's family left her in jail. She called her family trying to get bail money.

2seaoat



I wonder why Bland's family left her in jail. She called her family trying to get bail money.

Poor people do not have $500 in the bank.  The logistics of either signing papers with a rip off bails bond outfit, or wiring funds to who?  It is not that easy being poor, but when you are poor you are also powerless.  The oppressors can smell the advantage and like any bully pounce.  If she was withing driving distance from Chicago, it would have been easier, but they were trying to gather the money........notice how easy the police officer in Cincy came up with a 100k.....different animal entirely when you are not poor.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

2seaoat wrote:I wonder why Bland's family left her in jail. She called her family trying to get bail money.

Poor people do not have $500 in the bank.  The logistics of either signing papers with a rip off bails bond outfit, or wiring funds to who?  It is not that easy being poor, but when you are poor you are also powerless.  The oppressors can smell the advantage and like any bully pounce.  If she was withing driving distance from Chicago, it would have been easier, but they were trying to gather the money........notice how easy the police officer in Cincy came up with a 100k.....different animal entirely when you are not poor.

Are you saying all blacks are poor? Bland was a college graduate, member of the college band and former sorority president.....those things are selective and cost money.

2seaoat



Are you saying all blacks are poor? Bland was a college graduate, member of the college band and former sorority president.....those things are selective and cost money.

I am saying that the mother on local news said they were trying to gather up the money.  You or I can get five hundred bucks.   This mother could not.  Poor has nothing to do with color.  It has everything to do with not having five hundred bucks.

Vikingwoman



2seaoat wrote:Well, that article certainly did the trooper more good than harm. He certainly is not going to be fired over this as you said.

He is gone.  You cannot even turn on your TV without seeing another officer F'lng up like the May stop and ignoring citizen's rights.  It is an epidemic exactly as I have outlined in the Mays thread......the rush to make it about rude citizens....hell no.....its about bad training and a complete transformation in America where the tail is wagging the dog. 

No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
Madison


But when it's a white person like Reese Witherspoon asking the officer questions and asserting her rights,it's not ok. Right Oatie? Bland got arrested for resisting arrest,kicking the officer and failing to obey a lawful command. The only difference between Witherspoon and Bland is Witherspoon didn't kick the officer.

2seaoat



But when it's a white person like Reese Witherspoon asking the officer questions and asserting her rights,it's not ok. Right Oatie? Bland got arrested for resisting arrest,kicking the officer and failing to obey a lawful command. The only difference between Witherspoon and Bland is Witherspoon didn't kick the officer.

I have explained the differences in the two arrests.  One was valid.  One was not.  I concede you are unable to distinguish the critical differences.  No surprise.

Vikingwoman



There wasn't any differences, Oatie. One was told to get out of the car and one was told to get in the car.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Vikingwoman wrote:
2seaoat wrote:Well, that article certainly did the trooper more good than harm. He certainly is not going to be fired over this as you said.

He is gone.  You cannot even turn on your TV without seeing another officer F'lng up like the May stop and ignoring citizen's rights.  It is an epidemic exactly as I have outlined in the Mays thread......the rush to make it about rude citizens....hell no.....its about bad training and a complete transformation in America where the tail is wagging the dog. 

No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
Madison


But when it's a white person like Reese Witherspoon asking the officer questions and asserting her rights,it's not ok. Right Oatie? Bland got arrested for resisting arrest,kicking the officer and failing to obey a lawful command. The only difference between Witherspoon and Bland is Witherspoon didn't kick the officer.

Where did you see her resist arrest or kick the cop?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Vikingwoman wrote:There wasn't any differences, Oatie. One was told to get out of the car and one was told to get in the car.

That "officer" (I hesitate even to give him that much respect) had no valid reason to stop Ms. Bland, and certainly had no reason to have her get out of her vehicle, which he accomplished, on camera, by force. We can't see what happened next, except we can hear Ms. Bland complaining that he forced her head to the ground and she couldn't hear...for a damn SIGNAL? Give me a break. If you were a cop, you were a damn poor one. And Reese Witherspoon was DRUNK...not even close to this situation.

Vikingwoman



You can hear it in the video where she's calling him a pussy and the other female cop is there and remarks about her kicking him and then he points to where she kicked him to another cop.

Vikingwoman



Floridatexan wrote:
Vikingwoman wrote:There wasn't any differences, Oatie. One was told to get out of the car and one was told to get in the car.

That "officer" (I hesitate even to give him that much respect) had no valid reason to stop Ms. Bland, and certainly had no reason to have her get out of her vehicle, which he accomplished, on camera, by force.  We can't see what happened next, except we can hear Ms. Bland complaining that he forced her head to the ground and she couldn't hear...for a damn SIGNAL?  Give me a break.  If you were a cop, you were a damn poor one.  And Reese Witherspoon was DRUNK...not even close to this situation.

Oh so since I don't agree w/ your assessment I was a poor cop? I have news for you and your constant biased views on anything that has to do w/ race. You're not competent to evaluate anything where race is involved. You ignore everything but the fact that the person was black. The cop legally pulled her over. It may have been petty but he also pulled over a white person previous to her. We've also established he had the right to ask her to get out of the car whether she refused to stop smoking or not. Maybe he didn't want to breath her smoke but he had a right to ask her to get out of the car and she refused. She then started calling him names and was fighting w/ him while he was trying to cuff her and kicked him. Yes he yelled at her but he asked her many times to get out of the car. Now you want to act like all that was ok. You're FOS! Witherspoon may have been drunk but she did no less than Bland when she didn't obey his order and got arrested for verbally obstructing justice. No difference!

Vikingwoman



Oh and now watch Oatie come on and give some bullshit reason why the arrests were different. LOL!

2seaoat



They were different.  The minor traffic stop was over with the citation being handed to Sandra Bland.  The exceptions to the fourth amendment end when the stop ends.  Sandra was arrested not because she kicked the officer, but because she did not want to put her cigarette out and questioned why she was being placed under arrest and being asked to leave her car.  The Supreme Court addressed this clearly.  The officer safety exception does not apply because the officer lied and said he was asking her out of the vehicle to have her sign the citation.

Witherspoon was a passenger in a car where the driver was being given a field sobriety test to the driver.  The stop was not over and the officer was determining if the driver was impaired.  Witherspoon left the vehicle and the officer asked her to return to the vehicle.  It had nothing to do with what Witherspoon was saying, which at the time you mistakenly thought was a first amendment right of witherspoon(never saw a legal concept you could not butcher), rather I explained to you it was an officer safety issue that officer was in the middle of his investigatory stop and asking a passenger to remain in a vehicle during a stop has fully been supported by the Supreme Court.

Poor Dreams thinks the arrest happened when the alleged kick took place.  It did not.  I gave Dreams two very important Supreme Court cases which explain why the Bland arrest was not lawful.  If she had lived, all the charges would have been dismissed after a successful motion to suppress.  Witherspoon was guilty.  You lack the training or reading to understand this distinction, and Tex is only talking about things she understands fully.

Vikingwoman



See, this is where the bullshit comes in. It had everything to do w/ what Witherspoon was saying. Witherspoon was arrested for not obeying a lawful command. The officer said nothing about officer safety. He told her she was being arrested for not obeying his command because she asked what her husband was being arrested for and said she was a US citizen. Bland was asked to step out of the car because she was smoking a cigarette and refused to put it out. Both refused a lawful command. Now you can try and twist it all you want Oatie but he had a right to ask her to step out of the car and there was no difference between the actions. Futhermore, the stop was not over until she signed the ticket and he left. You and Fl Tex can continue to make it what it wasn't but that doesn't make it true. You both try to twist it to fit your agenda's.

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=reese+witherspoon+arrest&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002

2seaoat



No, the threshold question is intelligence.  A child often cannot distinguish a butterfly from a bird.  They both fly, but they are different.  Witherspoon's arrest had NOTHING to do with speech or what she was saying, and you argue that a butterfly is a bird.

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