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SIX Suicide Car Bombers strike Ramadi where the battle for the city continue at this moment.

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Hospital Bob
ZVUGKTUBM
Floridatexan
2seaoat
Markle
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Markle

Markle

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Markle wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Sal wrote:Jeb's brother created ISIS.[/font]

If Jeb's brother had possessed any sense, he would have found an alternative method of containing Saddam. The No Fly Zones worked, and were much less costly to maintain than hosting a full-on invasion of the country.

Bush was out to show the world how tough he was going to be on the world scene. He didn't care what this disaster would ultimately cost humanity.

Bush's invasion of Iraq was akin to Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia back in the 1930s. I guess he wanted to outdo the 20th century fascist conquerors.

Calling you a liar is not slander. That's what you did...factually.
Liar

If you deny that you're a liar.  PLEASE show us in modern history where the United States has kept any land we have fought for other than space to bury our dead.

SIX Suicide Car Bombers strike Ramadi where the battle for the city continue at this moment. - Page 2 Socrat10

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

KarlRove wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
KarlRove wrote:Iraq was under control and peaceful when Bush handed the baton off to Iraq.  That is a fact.  Obama pissed it all away.

Obama wanted to get us out of there so you wouldn't have to make any more deployments there. We wanted the U.S. out of there too, that is why we booted the GOP out of the Whitehouse in 2008.

He got us out of there before the job was done and now we are reaping the whirlwind.

I am delighted with Obama's decision to get us the hell out of that bloody trap. ISIS can have it all!

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

For 25 years, Yoshi Tsurumi, one of George W. Bush's professors at Harvard Business School, was content with his green-card status as a permanent legal resident of the United States. But Bush's ascension to the presidency in 2001 prompted the Japanese native to secure his American citizenship. The reason: to be able to speak out with the full authority of citizenship about why he believes Bush lacks the character and intellect to lead the world's oldest and most powerful democracy.

"I don't remember all the students in detail unless I'm prompted by something," Tsurumi said in a telephone interview Wednesday. "But I always remember two types of students. One is the very excellent student, the type as a professor you feel honored to be working with. Someone with strong social values, compassion and intellect -- the very rare person you never forget. And then you remember students like George Bush, those who are totally the opposite." The future president was one of 85 first-year MBA students in Tsurumi's macroeconomic policies and international business class in the fall of 1973 and spring of 1974.
Tsurumi was a visiting associate professor at Harvard Business School from January 1972 to August 1976; today, he is a professor of international business at Baruch College in New York.

Trading as usual on his father's connections, Bush entered Harvard in 1973 for a two-year program. He'd just come off what George H.W. Bush had once called his eldest son's "nomadic years" -- partying, drifting from job to job, working on political campaigns in Florida and Alabama and, most famously, apparently not showing up for duty in the Alabama National Guard.
Harvard Business School's rigorous teaching methods, in which the professor interacts aggressively with students, and students are encouraged to challenge each other sharply, offered important insights into Bush, Tsurumi said. In observing students' in-class performances, "you develop pretty good ideas about what are their weaknesses and strengths in terms of thinking, analysis, their prejudices, their backgrounds and other things that students reveal," he said.

One of Tsurumi's standout students was Rep. Chris Cox, R-Calif., now the seventh-ranking member of the House Republican leadership. "I typed him as a conservative Republican with a conscience," Tsurumi said. "He never confused his own ideology with economics, and he didn't try to hide his ignorance of a subject in mumbo jumbo. He was what I call a principled conservative."
(Though clearly a partisan one. On Wednesday, Cox called for a congressional investigation of the validity of documents that CBS News obtained for a story questioning Bush's attendance at Guard duty in
Alabama.)

Bush, by contrast, "was totally the opposite of Chris Cox," Tsurumi said. "He showed pathological lying habits and was in denial when challenged on his prejudices and biases. He would even deny saying something he just said 30 seconds ago. He was famous for that. Students jumped on him; I challenged him."
When asked to explain a particular comment, said Tsurumi, Bush would respond, "Oh, I never said that."
A White House spokeswoman did not return a phone call seeking comment.

In 1973, as the oil and energy crisis raged, Tsurumi led a discussion on whether government should assist retirees and other people on fixed incomes with heating costs. Bush, he recalled, "made this ridiculous statement and when I asked him to explain, he said, 'The government doesn't have to help poor people -- because they are lazy.' I said, 'Well, could you explain that assumption?' Not only could he not explain it, he started backtracking on it, saying, 'No, I didn't say that.'"

If Cox had been in the same class, Tsurumi said, "I could have asked him to challenge that and he would have demolished it. Not personally or emotionally, but intellectually."

Bush once sneered at Tsurumi for showing the film "The Grapes of Wrath," based on John Steinbeck's novel of the Depression. "We were in a discussion of the New Deal, and he called Franklin Roosevelt's policies 'socialism.' He denounced labor unions, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Medicare, Social Security, you name it. He denounced the civil rights movement as socialism. To him, socialism and communism were the same thing. And when challenged to explain his prejudice, he could not defend his argument, either ideologically, polemically or academically."

Students who challenged and embarrassed Bush in class would then become the subject of a whispering campaign by him, Tsurumi said. "In class, he couldn't challenge them. But after class, he sometimes came up to me in the hallway and started bad-mouthing those students who had challenged him. He would complain that someone was drinking too much. It was innuendo and lies. So that's how I knew, behind his smile and his smirk, that he was a very insecure, cunning and vengeful guy."

Many of Tsurumi's students came from well-connected or wealthy families, but good manners prevented them from boasting about it, the professor said. But Bush seemed unabashed about the connections that had brought him to Harvard. "The other children of the rich and famous were at least well bred to the point of realizing universal values and standards of behavior," Tsurumi said. But Bush sometimes came late to class and often sat in the back row of the theater-like classroom, wearing a bomber jacket from the Texas Air National Guard and spitting chewing tobacco into a cup.

"At first, I wondered, 'Who is this George Bush?' It's a very common name and I didn't know his background.
And he was such a bad student that I asked him once how he got in. He said, 'My dad has good friends.'"
Bush scored in the lowest 10 percent of the class.

The Vietnam War was still roiling campuses and Harvard was no exception. Bush expressed strong support for the war but admitted to Tsurumi that he'd gotten a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard through his father's connections.

"I used to chat up a number of students when we were walking back to class," Tsurumi said. "Here was Bush, wearing a Texas Guard bomber jacket, and the draft was the No. 1 topic in those days. And I said, 'George, what did you do with the draft?' He said, 'Well, I got into the Texas Air National Guard.' And I said, 'Lucky you. I understand there is a long waiting list for it.
How'd you get in?' When he told me, he didn't seem ashamed or embarrassed. He thought he was entitled to all kinds of privileges and special deals. He was not the only one trying to twist all their connections to avoid Vietnam. But then, he was fanatically for the war."

Tsurumi told Bush that someone who avoided a draft while supporting a war in which others were dying was a hypocrite. "He realized he was caught, showed his famous smirk and huffed off."

Tsurumi's conclusion: Bush is not as dumb as his detractors allege. "He was just badly brought up, with no discipline, and no compassion," he said. In recent days, Tsurumi has told his story to various print and television outlets and appears in Kitty Kelley's
(http://www.salon.com/books/int/2004/...ley/index.html)
expose' "The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty." He said other professors and students at the business school from that time share his recollections but are afraid to come forward, fearing ostracism or retribution. And why is Tsurumi speaking up now?
Because with the ongoing bloodshed in Iraq and Osama bin Laden still on the loose -- not to mention a federal deficit ballooning out of control -- the stakes are too high to remain silent. "Obviously, I don't think he is the best person" to be running the country, he said. "I wanted to explain why."

http://www.firehouse.com/forums/t63129-print/

Sal

Sal

As semi-lucid poster Markle well knows, Dubya's de-Baathification program in Iraq set the stage for the rise of ISIS.

It is no surprise that many of the ISIS's top commanders are former commanders from Saddam's Iraqi military.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

That certainly was a revealing article, Bob. It says a lot about current Republican values.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

KarlRove

KarlRove

Sal wrote:As semi-lucid poster Markle well knows, Dubya's de-Baathification program in Iraq set the stage for the rise of ISIS.

It is no surprise that many of the ISIS's top commanders are former commanders from Saddam's Iraqi military.

Those Baathists were old and decrepit when we kicked Saddam out. The only similarity with ISIS and Saddam's folks are that they were and are Sunni Muslims.

KarlRove

KarlRove

Here's a Baath Party member right here:


SIX Suicide Car Bombers strike Ramadi where the battle for the city continue at this moment. - Page 2 BaghdadBobImage34

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Absolutely correct,  Karl.  The Baathist sunnis were a lot less scary than the ISIS sunnis which the iraq invasion/occupation replaced them with.
How's that workin out for you.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Bob wrote:Absolutely correct,  Karl.  The Baathist sunnis were a lot less scary than the ISIS sunnis which the iraq invasion/occupation replaced them with.
How's that workin out for you.

The invasion of Iraq was stupid. Damn Bush and those f-ing Neocons. George W. Bush ranks near the bottom of the totem pole in presidential greatness. The worst POTUS of my 63 years.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Guest


Guest

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Bob wrote:Absolutely correct,  Karl.  The Baathist sunnis were a lot less scary than the ISIS sunnis which the iraq invasion/occupation replaced them with.
How's that workin out for you.

The invasion of Iraq was stupid. Damn Bush and those f-ing Neocons. George W. Bush ranks near the bottom of the totem pole in presidential greatness. The worst POTUS of my 63 years.

Funny how that invasion continues and will continue to be the platform of the Democratic party.

What else ya got?

Still voting for myself, as of today... Very Happy

Markle

Markle

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Markle wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Sal wrote:Jeb's brother created ISIS.[/font]

If Jeb's brother had possessed any sense, he would have found an alternative method of containing Saddam. The No Fly Zones worked, and were much less costly to maintain than hosting a full-on invasion of the country.

Bush was out to show the world how tough he was going to be on the world scene. He didn't care what this disaster would ultimately cost humanity.

Bush's invasion of Iraq was akin to Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia back in the 1930s. I guess he wanted to outdo the 20th century fascist conquerors.

Liar

If you deny that you're a liar.  PLEASE show us in modern history where the United States has kept any land we have fought for other than space to bury our dead.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f19/17/64/22/51/socrat10.jpg[/img][/url]

Step up my good friend, show us were we have kept any land we have fought for in modern history other than to bury our dead.

It is not slander if it is TRUE. And you know well what I posted is TRUE.

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:That George W. twerp is a hayseed.  All you have to do is listen to him attempt to talk.
He exhibited a lot of hick'ish ideas too.  And I know,  he graduated Yale and all but I'd be willing to bet money some strings were pulled on that one.  

And it's for that reason that I have to suspect what his motive was for what he did.  I wouldn't be thinking this about any other President I've observed in my lifetime. Only this one.

I think in his mind Saddam came out on top against his Dad in "the first one" just because Saddam was allowed to remain in power.

My gut feeling is sonny boy Bush had spent his life trying to get out of the shadow of his father.  And this was the ultimate win for him.  He could do what his Dad didn't do by getting rid of Saddam.  And in his mind that TOPS dear old dad.

That coupled with a complete ignorance of other countries.  I think those neoconservative advisors surrounding him convinced him he could remove saddam and actually turn the country into a democracy while reaping the benefits of the Iraq oil fields.  AND give him the win in the junior vs daddy contest.

You should know that the coalition did not have permission to invade Iraq. They had permission to liberate Kuwait from the Iraqi invasion.

2seaoat



Funny how that invasion continues and will continue to be the platform of the Democratic party.

What else ya got?



The platform of disengagement and reduction the American military footprint is the platform which the American People overwhelmingly voted for in the last two elections. The scardy cats and subversives are now thinking the American people are forgetful and full revisionism is in full force. You obviously disagree with the American people who voted twice for disengagement and a reduction in our Military footprint. What else do they have......just the truth....something which you seem to be avoiding. We are NOT sending troops to the Middle East to make MIC wealthy and protect corrupt regimes who think Americans' blood is less valuable than their duty to defend their nations......if you want to keep that fantasy alive....I guess that is all you got.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
KarlRove wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
KarlRove wrote:Iraq was under control and peaceful when Bush handed the baton off to Iraq.  That is a fact.  Obama pissed it all away.

Obama wanted to get us out of there so you wouldn't have to make any more deployments there. We wanted the U.S. out of there too, that is why we booted the GOP out of the Whitehouse in 2008.

He got us out of there before the job was done and now we are reaping the whirlwind.

I am delighted with Obama's decision to get us the hell out of that bloody trap.  ISIS can have it all!

Yea? We're back in and fighting. So how'd that work out for you?

2seaoat



You should know that the coalition did not have permission to invade Iraq. They had permission to liberate Kuwait from the Iraqi invasion.


They did not need permission under continuing violations of the UN guidelines in our withdrawal from Iraq in the first war. This rationalization was so irrational that the Bush administration did not even try to sell that to the UN or Congress. The yellow cake and weapons of mass hysteria accomplished the reaction needed to invade.....however, Bush could have invaded on over a hundred violations by Hussein. I guess when a 100k innocent civilians are at risk....you better have at least some yellow cake......I guess history is full of corrupt politicians telling the people to eat cake.

2seaoat



Yea? We're back in and fighting. So how'd that work out for you?


95% reduction.....yea I can live with that......I have a problem with 38k in Korea.

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:Yea? We're back in and fighting. So how'd that work out for you?


95% reduction.....yea I can live with that......I have a problem with 38k in Korea.

We had an ill advised 100% reduction and now we have troops going back in and, contrary to what we were promised by semi-retired President Obama.

Not only do we have troops in Iraq where they were only supposed to be "advising and training" but now fighting.

EXACTLY what was promised by all President Obama's advisor's as well as Republicans. Progressives just refuse to listen to common sense.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Markle wrote:Progressives just refuse to listen to common sense.

Common sense? From you wingnuts?

SIX Suicide Car Bombers strike Ramadi where the battle for the city continue at this moment. - Page 2 AnimatedLaughterPink

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Markle

Markle

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Markle wrote:Progressives just refuse to listen to common sense.

Common sense? From you wingnuts?

SIX Suicide Car Bombers strike Ramadi where the battle for the city continue at this moment. - Page 2 AnimatedLaughterPink

SIX Suicide Car Bombers strike Ramadi where the battle for the city continue at this moment. - Page 2 E2454354-4d44-4ac6-9b35-84e4be224b5b

Conservatives have forecast exactly what would happen to our economy and to the Middle East with a semi-retired President with no experience or accomplishments.

So yes, Common sense from Conservatives. We are right, you are not.

boards of FL

boards of FL

SIX Suicide Car Bombers strike Ramadi where the battle for the city continue at this moment. - Page 2 AATTP-Laughing-Republicans-620x330


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Markle wrote:

Conservatives have forecast exactly what would happen to our economy and to the Middle East with a semi-retired President with no experience or accomplishments.

So yes, Common sense from Conservatives.  We are right, you are not.

There's one of those silly words again. Can anybody even define the word "conservative" anymore?

Also, if who the President is at the time is what determines the state of the economy, which President was on duty when the "Great Recession" started?

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Bob wrote:
Markle wrote:

Conservatives have forecast exactly what would happen to our economy and to the Middle East with a semi-retired President with no experience or accomplishments.

So yes, Common sense from Conservatives.  We are right, you are not.

There's one of those silly words again.  Can anybody even define the word "conservative" anymore?  Also,  if who the President is at the time is what determines the state of the economy, which President was on duty when the "Great Recession" started?

The only thing you will see from semi-demented poster Markle or poster KarlRove in answer is more blame-shifting. You will never those two place any labels on a Republican.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Markle wrote:Conservatives have forecast exactly what would happen to our economy and to the Middle East with a semi-retired President with no experience or accomplishments.

So yes, Common sense from Conservatives.  We are right, you are not.

Did conservatives forecast how well the economy would recover from the lows of 2009 under President Obama? If the economy continues to trend the way it has into 2016, what do you think Republican chances are to snatch the Whitehouse?

If the economy continues to grow and Republican fearmongering fails to resonate with voters, I would say any or all of the currently declared GOP contenders will fail miserably at the polls. At least the day after we will see how "right" conservatives are......

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

boards of FL

boards of FL

Death panels. The ACA is a job killer. Inflation is going to explode. Etc. Etc.

I can't think of any forecast that any conservative was actually right on.


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KarlRove

KarlRove

Ramadi fell... Thanks Obama

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