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Warren Buffett to Pay 3B in Burger King buy of Tim Hortons to Avoid US Taxes

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boards of FL
2seaoat
Joanimaroni
Hospital Bob
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Guest

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/warren-buffett-pay-3b-burger-king-buy-tim-hortons-article-1.1918034

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

from Forbes...

It will be interesting to see how Obama reacts to Buffett’s involvement with the Burger King deal. The White House declined to comment on the deal on Monday before Buffett’s involvement became public. Over the years, Buffett has been a vocal advocate for Obama, particularly backing Obama’s effort to increase taxes on the rich and close tax loopholes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2014/08/26/warren-buffett-burger-king-and-the-big-money-behind-inversion-deals/

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni


Our corporate tax rate is the highest in the industrialized world. That's a problem.

How do we fix the problem ....put up a huge barbed wire fence to keep corporations here and call them un-American if they leave?

The average tax payer looks for exemptions to lower their taxes. How many tax payers here look for ways to pay the highest taxes possible?

Guest


Guest

I can't believe that the policies aren't intended to do have that exact desired effect.

2seaoat



How do we fix the problem ....put up a huge barbed wire fence to keep corporations here and call them un-American if they leave?

We do not need to put up a barb wire fence. We just need to utilize the tax code to punish economic traitors. Many in Congress want to pursue legislation to address tax-inverting companies, but no consensus measures have emerged. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Ron Wyden of Oregon said earlier this month he's working with Sen. Chuck Schumer, the No. 3 Senate Democrat, and ranking member Orrin Hatch of Utah, on a bipartisan bill, but details are sketchy.

The highest corporate tax rate is an absurd concept. That is like telling an individual they have to pay a certain rate before they took their deductions. The truth is just the opposite. The only true measure of corporate tax is as a percentage of GDP. The truth is we are at a historical low. It is amazing how the Oligarchy has brainwashed otherwise intelligent people to work against their economic interests while the 1% skates on their contributions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/corporate-tax-revenues-ne_n_830361.html

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

"Our corporate tax rate is the highest in the industrialized world. That's a problem".

"The highest corporate tax rate is an absurd concept... The truth is just the opposite. The only true measure of corporate tax is as a percentage of GDP. The truth is we are at a historical low."


red state vs blue state
republican vs democrat (aka "lifelong" republican)
conservative vs liberal
right-wing vs left-wing
sean hannity vs ed schultz
hulk hogan vs macho man

BUT,  if you don't get behind one or the other,  you have an IQ lower than a toaster.  You're "riding the fence".  lol

Guest


Guest

Tax avoidance = Good

Tax evasion     = Bad

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

colaguy wrote:Tax avoidance = Good

Tax evasion     = Bad

Would you define tax avoidance as doing what is legal and tax evasion as doing what is illegal?

Guest


Guest

70% of BK is owned by a Brazilian private equity firm. Un-American??? Laughing

boards of FL

boards of FL

For some added context...

Corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP (US is ranked 16th):

Country %Tax
Norway 10.4
Luxembourg 5.1
New Zealand 4.4
Korea 4.0
Czech Republic 3.6
Japan 3.4
Belgium 3.1
Denmark 3.0
Sweden 3.0
Canada 2.9
Switzerland 2.9
United Kingdom 2.9
Italy 2.9
Israel  (1) 2.8
Portugal 2.8
United States 2.6


Total taxes as a percentage of GDP (US is ranked 61st):

Country %Tax
Zimbabwe 49.3
Denmark 49
Belgium 46.8
Sweden 45.8
Cuba 44.8
France 44.6
Finland 43.6
Norway 43.6
Austria 43.4
Lesotho 42.9
Italy 42.6
Bosnia and Herzegovina 41.2
Germany 40.6
Iceland 40.4
Netherlands 39.8
Swaziland 39.8
Slovenia 39.3
Cyprus 39.2
Hungary 39.1
United Kingdom 39
Spain 37.3
Argentina 37.2
Portugal 37
Israel 36.8
Luxembourg 36.5
Czech Republic 36.3
Botswana 35.2
Malta 35.2
New Zealand 34.5
Brazil 34.4
Bulgaria 34.4
Serbia 34.1
Moldova 33.8
Mongolia 33.8
Poland 33.8
Barbados 32.6
Turkey 32.5
Estonia 32.3
Canada 32.2
Seychelles 32
Guyana 31.9
Ireland 30.8
Latvia 30.4
Dominica 30.3
Greece 30
Mexico 29.7
Russia 29.5
Slovakia 29.5
 Switzerland 29.4
Macedonia 29.3
Namibia 28.8
Japan 28.3
Romania 28.1
Ukraine 28.1
Montenegro 28
Trinidad and Tobago 28
Jamaica 27.2
Bolivia 27
Tonga 27
South Africa 26.9
United States (all levels) 26.9


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Guest


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Bob wrote:
colaguy wrote:Tax avoidance = Good

Tax evasion     = Bad

Would you define tax avoidance as doing what is legal and tax evasion as doing what is illegal?

Correct.

Guest


Guest

boards of FL wrote:For some added context...

Corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP (US is ranked 16th):

Country %Tax
Norway 10.4
Luxembourg 5.1
New Zealand 4.4
Korea 4.0
Czech Republic 3.6
Japan 3.4
Belgium 3.1
Denmark 3.0
Sweden 3.0
Canada 2.9
Switzerland 2.9
United Kingdom 2.9
Italy 2.9
Israel  (1) 2.8
Portugal 2.8
United States 2.6


Total taxes as a percentage of GDP (US is ranked 61st):

Country %Tax
Zimbabwe 49.3
Denmark 49
Belgium 46.8
Sweden 45.8
Cuba 44.8
France 44.6
Finland 43.6
Norway 43.6
Austria 43.4
Lesotho 42.9
Italy 42.6
Bosnia and Herzegovina 41.2
Germany 40.6
Iceland 40.4
Netherlands 39.8
Swaziland 39.8
Slovenia 39.3
Cyprus 39.2
Hungary 39.1
United Kingdom 39
Spain 37.3
Argentina 37.2
Portugal 37
Israel 36.8
Luxembourg 36.5
Czech Republic 36.3
Botswana 35.2
Malta 35.2
New Zealand 34.5
Brazil 34.4
Bulgaria 34.4
Serbia 34.1
Moldova 33.8
Mongolia 33.8
Poland 33.8
Barbados 32.6
Turkey 32.5
Estonia 32.3
Canada 32.2
Seychelles 32
Guyana 31.9
Ireland 30.8
Latvia 30.4
Dominica 30.3
Greece 30
Mexico 29.7
Russia 29.5
Slovakia 29.5
 Switzerland 29.4
Macedonia 29.3
Namibia 28.8
Japan 28.3
Romania 28.1
Ukraine 28.1
Montenegro 28
Trinidad and Tobago 28
Jamaica 27.2
Bolivia 27
Tonga 27
South Africa 26.9
United States (all levels) 26.9

This is fairly irrelevant to the issue.  

Since the US has a humongous economy, 35% of $15T is quite a bit more than 35% of $500B, such as Norway.

boards of FL

boards of FL

colaguy wrote:
boards of FL wrote:For some added context...

Corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP (US is ranked 16th):

Country %Tax
Norway 10.4
Luxembourg 5.1
New Zealand 4.4
Korea 4.0
Czech Republic 3.6
Japan 3.4
Belgium 3.1
Denmark 3.0
Sweden 3.0
Canada 2.9
Switzerland 2.9
United Kingdom 2.9
Italy 2.9
Israel  (1) 2.8
Portugal 2.8
United States 2.6


Total taxes as a percentage of GDP (US is ranked 61st):

Country %Tax
Zimbabwe 49.3
Denmark 49
Belgium 46.8
Sweden 45.8
Cuba 44.8
France 44.6
Finland 43.6
Norway 43.6
Austria 43.4
Lesotho 42.9
Italy 42.6
Bosnia and Herzegovina 41.2
Germany 40.6
Iceland 40.4
Netherlands 39.8
Swaziland 39.8
Slovenia 39.3
Cyprus 39.2
Hungary 39.1
United Kingdom 39
Spain 37.3
Argentina 37.2
Portugal 37
Israel 36.8
Luxembourg 36.5
Czech Republic 36.3
Botswana 35.2
Malta 35.2
New Zealand 34.5
Brazil 34.4
Bulgaria 34.4
Serbia 34.1
Moldova 33.8
Mongolia 33.8
Poland 33.8
Barbados 32.6
Turkey 32.5
Estonia 32.3
Canada 32.2
Seychelles 32
Guyana 31.9
Ireland 30.8
Latvia 30.4
Dominica 30.3
Greece 30
Mexico 29.7
Russia 29.5
Slovakia 29.5
 Switzerland 29.4
Macedonia 29.3
Namibia 28.8
Japan 28.3
Romania 28.1
Ukraine 28.1
Montenegro 28
Trinidad and Tobago 28
Jamaica 27.2
Bolivia 27
Tonga 27
South Africa 26.9
United States (all levels) 26.9

This is fairly irrelevant to the issue.  

Since the US has a humongous economy, 35% of $15T is quite a bit more than 35% of $500B, such as Norway.


Right after saying that using %'s as a means of comparison is irrelevant, you go on to explain why using %'s as a means of comparison is relevant.

We obviously would not compare nominal tax receipts because - as you point out - GDP varies between country.  That is why we use %'s instead.  %'s are the relevant means of comparison whereas nominal values are not.

I bet you struggle with concepts like "per capita", don't you?


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2seaoat



The success of propaganda to manipulate low IQ voters is stunningly brilliant as they have created a collection of issues which are red flags for some voters and then piggybacked the theft of this country on the same. Patriots will eventually win the propaganda war as these bold faced liars are held accountable. Who eats at burger king anyway........however if they want to leave this country, I have the free choice to leave their establishments.

Sal

Sal

colaguy wrote:

This is fairly irrelevant to the issue.  

Since the US has a humongous economy, 35% of $15T is quite a bit more than 35% of $500B, such as Norway.

Whoa ....

knothead

knothead

Of all the other nations who have 'lower' tax rates how many have the burden of defending the world? Aircraft carrier fleets get mighty expensive yet the US maintains them at ready and everyone benefits but US corporations want to jump ship and leave? It's a Republican mind set . . . . . if it's legal why not?

Guest


Guest

boards of FL wrote:
colaguy wrote:
boards of FL wrote:For some added context...

Corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP (US is ranked 16th):

Country %Tax
Norway 10.4
Luxembourg 5.1
New Zealand 4.4
Korea 4.0
Czech Republic 3.6
Japan 3.4
Belgium 3.1
Denmark 3.0
Sweden 3.0
Canada 2.9
Switzerland 2.9
United Kingdom 2.9
Italy 2.9
Israel  (1) 2.8
Portugal 2.8
United States 2.6


Total taxes as a percentage of GDP (US is ranked 61st):

Country %Tax
Zimbabwe 49.3
Denmark 49
Belgium 46.8
Sweden 45.8
Cuba 44.8
France 44.6
Finland 43.6
Norway 43.6
Austria 43.4
Lesotho 42.9
Italy 42.6
Bosnia and Herzegovina 41.2
Germany 40.6
Iceland 40.4
Netherlands 39.8
Swaziland 39.8
Slovenia 39.3
Cyprus 39.2
Hungary 39.1
United Kingdom 39
Spain 37.3
Argentina 37.2
Portugal 37
Israel 36.8
Luxembourg 36.5
Czech Republic 36.3
Botswana 35.2
Malta 35.2
New Zealand 34.5
Brazil 34.4
Bulgaria 34.4
Serbia 34.1
Moldova 33.8
Mongolia 33.8
Poland 33.8
Barbados 32.6
Turkey 32.5
Estonia 32.3
Canada 32.2
Seychelles 32
Guyana 31.9
Ireland 30.8
Latvia 30.4
Dominica 30.3
Greece 30
Mexico 29.7
Russia 29.5
Slovakia 29.5
 Switzerland 29.4
Macedonia 29.3
Namibia 28.8
Japan 28.3
Romania 28.1
Ukraine 28.1
Montenegro 28
Trinidad and Tobago 28
Jamaica 27.2
Bolivia 27
Tonga 27
South Africa 26.9
United States (all levels) 26.9

This is fairly irrelevant to the issue.  

Since the US has a humongous economy, 35% of $15T is quite a bit more than 35% of $500B, such as Norway.


Right after saying that using %'s as a means of comparison is irrelevant, you go on to explain why using %'s as a means of comparison is relevant.

We obviously would not compare nominal tax receipts because - as you point out - GDP varies between country.  That is why we use %'s instead.  %'s are the relevant means of comparison whereas nominal values are not.

I bet you struggle with concepts like "per capita", don't you?  Is it just your nature to try to belittle those whose opinion differs from yours?

Please explain why it is relevant that Norway’s corporate tax % = 10.4% of its GDP, and the US corporate tax % = 2.6% of its GDP.

I can also state that my personal income tax rate is 15% of my income (my personal GDP), and someone else’s might be 28% of their income.  Again, explain how this is relevant to the proposal to lower corporate tax rates.

If your point is that the US rate/GDP is much smaller than that of Norway’s then I’ll grant you that is true.  But what is its significance pertaining to the issue of the US corporate tax rate as the highest in the land?  The proponents of lowering the US corporate tax rate are basing that proposal on that doing so will eliminate the competitive disadvantage of US businesses.

In addition, lowering the rate will reduce or eliminate the “need” to move US businesses overseas.   And, it follows that there will be a reduction in the profit dollars (currently $2T) held overseas.

US corporate taxes as a % of ALL US taxes collected was 10% in 2013, per the OMB.  Not a substantial amount.  But, lowering the US corporate tax rate will not have a significant influence on this percentage – by eliminating the exodus, there will be more tax paying US-based companies.

Guest


Guest

knothead wrote:  Of all the other nations who have 'lower' tax rates how many have the burden of defending the world? Aircraft carrier fleets get mighty expensive yet the US maintains them at ready and everyone benefits but US corporations want to jump ship and leave? It's a Republican mind set . . . . . if it's legal why not?

What exactly is your reasoning that US corporations are opposed to the US defense program, and what does lowering the US corporate tax rate have to do with it?

".....if it's legal why not"  So, is it "unpatriotic of you or me to claim a deduction for charitable contributions or mortgage interest?  How about the deduction for IRA contributions?  No? Well these are part of the same tax code that the US Congress put into place.  The same tax code that allows US businesses to operate overseas to avoid paying US taxes.

I have yet to hear a cogent argument against lowering the US corp tax rate.

knothead

knothead

colaguy wrote:
knothead wrote:  Of all the other nations who have 'lower' tax rates how many have the burden of defending the world? Aircraft carrier fleets get mighty expensive yet the US maintains them at ready and everyone benefits but US corporations want to jump ship and leave? It's a Republican mind set . . . . . if it's legal why not?

What exactly is your reasoning that US corporations are opposed to the US defense program, and what does lowering the US corporate tax rate have to do with it?

".....if it's legal why not"  So, is it "unpatriotic of you or me to claim a deduction for charitable contributions or mortgage interest?  How about the deduction for IRA contributions?  No? Well these are part of the same tax code that the US Congress put into place.  The same tax code that allows US businesses to operate overseas to avoid paying US taxes.

I have yet to hear a cogent argument against lowering the US corp tax rate.

I agree with lowering the corporate tax rates colaguy what I did not understand reading your comment was the narrative of everyone claims deductions and pays the very least amount possible versus legally abandoning your country because it would improve the bottom line. Two vastly different narratives . . .

boards of FL

boards of FL

colaguy wrote:Please explain why it is relevant that Norway’s corporate tax % = 10.4% of its GDP, and the US corporate tax % = 2.6% of its GDP.


Well, this is a discussion about corporate tax burden, and it has been suggested that American companies feel the heaviest burden of any nation on earth due to the fact that "Our corporate tax rate is the highest in the industrialized world. That's a problem.", as Joanimaroni put it.  

If we're going to compare corporate tax burdens across various countries, we first need to sync them all to some common denominator - Corporate taxes as a % of GDP.  I'm amazed that you were somehow able to make it through high school and this be a foreign concept to you, as I'm pretty sure things like finding a lowest common denominator before comparing or adding fractions is a concept that is taught in elementary school.

Imagine seeing two people argue:

Person A:  I say that 7/10 is a bigger number than 4/8.

Person B:  What?!?!  I say that 4/8 is a bigger number than 7/10.

Elementary school math shows us that we can solve this dispute by finding a lowest common denominator and then comparing.  

7/10 can be converted to 28/40 by multiplying by 4/4, or, 1.

4/8 can be converted to 20/40 by multiplying by 5/5, or 1.  

So now we are essentially comparing 28/40 to 20/40, and we can conclude Person A is correct.  We know this because we synced these two things to some common denominator that allowed us to make direct comparisons.  

If we're going to compare corporate tax burdens across countries that have varying economies and marginal tax rates, the most straightforward approach is to convert each country's tax burden to some common denominator or expression - such as corporate taxes paid as a % of GDP.  This allows us to state each country's tax burden as a function relative to its overall economy - which allows us to make direct comparisons.


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knothead wrote:
colaguy wrote:
knothead wrote:  Of all the other nations who have 'lower' tax rates how many have the burden of defending the world? Aircraft carrier fleets get mighty expensive yet the US maintains them at ready and everyone benefits but US corporations want to jump ship and leave? It's a Republican mind set . . . . . if it's legal why not?

What exactly is your reasoning that US corporations are opposed to the US defense program, and what does lowering the US corporate tax rate have to do with it?

".....if it's legal why not"  So, is it "unpatriotic of you or me to claim a deduction for charitable contributions or mortgage interest?  How about the deduction for IRA contributions?  No? Well these are part of the same tax code that the US Congress put into place.  The same tax code that allows US businesses to operate overseas to avoid paying US taxes.

I have yet to hear a cogent argument against lowering the US corp tax rate.

I agree with lowering the corporate tax rates colaguy what I did not understand reading your comment was the narrative of everyone claims deductions and pays the very least amount possible versus legally abandoning your country because it would improve the bottom line.  Two vastly different narratives . . .    

NP Knot.  I understand.  What I don't understand is the mindset of some who say that following the US Tax Code and the provisions put into it by the US Congress is somehow unpatriotic.  I merely tried to point out that most of us don't consider it unpatriotic to use the mortgage interest expense deduction that is part of the same US Tax Code.  If the US Congress didn't intend for people to use it then it should change it.  Similarly, if they didn't intend for US companies to use the Tax Code and move its  company to another company, then the Congress should change it.

Guest


Guest

boards of FL wrote:
colaguy wrote:Please explain why it is relevant that Norway’s corporate tax % = 10.4% of its GDP, and the US corporate tax % = 2.6% of its GDP.


Well, this is a discussion about corporate tax burden, and it has been suggested that American companies feel the heaviest burden of any nation on earth due to the fact that "Our corporate tax rate is the highest in the industrialized world. That's a problem.", as Joanimaroni put it.  

If we're going to compare corporate tax burdens across various countries, we first need to sync them all to some common denominator - Corporate taxes as a % of GDP.  I'm amazed that you were somehow able to make it through high school and this be a foreign concept to you, as I'm pretty sure things like finding a lowest common denominator before comparing or adding fractions is a concept that is taught in elementary school.

Imagine seeing two people argue:

Person A:  I say that 7/10 is a bigger number than 4/8.

Person B:  What?!?!  I say that 4/8 is a bigger number than 7/10.

Elementary school math shows us that we can solve this dispute by finding a lowest common denominator and then comparing.  

7/10 can be converted to 28/40 by multiplying by 4/4, or, 1.

4/8 can be converted to 20/40 by multiplying by 5/5, or 1.  

So now we are essentially comparing 28/40 to 20/40, and we can conclude Person A is correct.  We know this because we synced these two things to some common denominator that allowed us to make direct comparisons.  

If we're going to compare corporate tax burdens across countries that have varying economies and marginal tax rates, the most straightforward approach is to convert each country's tax burden to some common denominator or expression - such as corporate taxes paid as a % of GDP.  This allows us to state each country's tax burden as a function relative to its overall economy - which allows us to make direct comparisons.

I'm amazed that you were somehow able to make it through high school and this be a foreign concept to you”  Again, is it just your nature to try to belittle those whose opinion differs from yours?


I believe your premise that we need to compare corporate tax burdens across various countries is flawed – not cogent to the issue at hand.  A comparison of tax burdens across various countries does not address the fundamental disparity in competition between corporate operations in different countries.  Some companies are marginally successful in their operations.  Taxes are just one of many costs that a company must include in its operations.  While not directly included in COGS it’s fairly easy to see that lowering the tax rate from 35% to 25% reduces the overall taxes payable, and therefore enables it to better price its product.  This helps the US company better able to compete globally:  US Company ABC makes widgets and competes with Foreign Company XYZ.  A lower US tax rate enables it to market its widgets at a competitive price.  And, especially for those marginally successful companies may mean the difference in survival or failure.

boards of FL

boards of FL

colaguy wrote:Again, is it just your nature to try to belittle those whose opinion differs from yours?


Forgive me. Perhaps it is too much to assume that those who participate in online discussions of corporate tax burden also possess some elementary knowledge of math.

Now if you'll excuse me for a second...

(lowers standards)


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Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

colaguy wrote:
knothead wrote:
colaguy wrote:
knothead wrote:  Of all the other nations who have 'lower' tax rates how many have the burden of defending the world? Aircraft carrier fleets get mighty expensive yet the US maintains them at ready and everyone benefits but US corporations want to jump ship and leave? It's a Republican mind set . . . . . if it's legal why not?

What exactly is your reasoning that US corporations are opposed to the US defense program, and what does lowering the US corporate tax rate have to do with it?

".....if it's legal why not"  So, is it "unpatriotic of you or me to claim a deduction for charitable contributions or mortgage interest?  How about the deduction for IRA contributions?  No? Well these are part of the same tax code that the US Congress put into place.  The same tax code that allows US businesses to operate overseas to avoid paying US taxes.

I have yet to hear a cogent argument against lowering the US corp tax rate.

I agree with lowering the corporate tax rates colaguy what I did not understand reading your comment was the narrative of everyone claims deductions and pays the very least amount possible versus legally abandoning your country because it would improve the bottom line.  Two vastly different narratives . . .    

NP Knot.  I understand.  What I don't understand is the mindset of some who say that following the US Tax Code and the provisions put into it by the US Congress is somehow unpatriotic.  I merely tried to point out that most of us don't consider it unpatriotic to use the mortgage interest expense deduction that is part of the same US Tax Code.  If the US Congress didn't intend for people to use it then it should change it.  Similarly, if they didn't intend for US companies to use the Tax Code and move its  company to another company, then the Congress should change it.


cheers

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

colaguy wrote:
knothead wrote:
colaguy wrote:
knothead wrote:  Of all the other nations who have 'lower' tax rates how many have the burden of defending the world? Aircraft carrier fleets get mighty expensive yet the US maintains them at ready and everyone benefits but US corporations want to jump ship and leave? It's a Republican mind set . . . . . if it's legal why not?

What exactly is your reasoning that US corporations are opposed to the US defense program, and what does lowering the US corporate tax rate have to do with it?

".....if it's legal why not"  So, is it "unpatriotic of you or me to claim a deduction for charitable contributions or mortgage interest?  How about the deduction for IRA contributions?  No? Well these are part of the same tax code that the US Congress put into place.  The same tax code that allows US businesses to operate overseas to avoid paying US taxes.

I have yet to hear a cogent argument against lowering the US corp tax rate.

I agree with lowering the corporate tax rates colaguy what I did not understand reading your comment was the narrative of everyone claims deductions and pays the very least amount possible versus legally abandoning your country because it would improve the bottom line.  Two vastly different narratives . . .    

NP Knot.  I understand.  What I don't understand is the mindset of some who say that following the US Tax Code and the provisions put into it by the US Congress is somehow unpatriotic.  I merely tried to point out that most of us don't consider it unpatriotic to use the mortgage interest expense deduction that is part of the same US Tax Code.  If the US Congress didn't intend for people to use it then it should change it.  Similarly, if they didn't intend for US companies to use the Tax Code and move its  company to another company, then the Congress should change it.

Most of us aren't hiding our assets overseas or moving our operations out of the country to avoid paying taxes.

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